Hi Dave T. 6 Feb.
DMB had said: > > > David (Thomas) has the idea that intellectual means "smart" and > > > social means "dumb". DT replied: > > Not at all. What I have been trying to tease out, primarily with > > Bo, is that: > > 1. The intellect (the power and capacity for knowledge and > > reasoning) is a property of the human brain that emerged deep in > > the social level. It's INTELLIGENCE you speak about. Intellect is no biological or social anything, it's a STATIC LEVEL, when will you realize that? There weren't any intellect before the level as little as there were life before the biological level Get it? > > Much like individual social behaviors in animals > > emerged deep in the biological level. Intellect did not just show > > up at the emergence of the intellectual level in Greece as Bo > > claims. OK, there surely were "skeptics" around before the known Greek philosophers started to undermine the social mythological reality, but your take of the "intellectual" term i flawed from the outset, To you it's simply turning of mental wheels, thus when a Stone Ager pondered the night sky he was intellectualizing and worse, when my crow found a way to reach food it ... ditto. Completely silly and out of sync with the MOQ.. > > 2. Intellect does not operate solely by subject and object > > reasoning. What an odd way of putting it. Intellect IS the objective attitude while "subjective" is its opposite (negative) term for the ignorant past (which becomes the social level for us initiated) This attitude's - as Matt wrote - first S/O manifestation was the Appearance/Reality split and the rest is history. > > 3. Intellectual level did not emerge solely in Greece. Though I do > > acknowledge that alphabetic written languages, particularly Greek, > > were a huge boon to its growth. Right, the intellectual level was entered by the Oriental culture, but it had nothing to do with language, I soon come over to rub your nose. Read what Pirsig says about the (was it) Babylonian cuneiform writings and Hammurabi bragging of his many possessions. All was social value, language as spoken or written symbols has nothing to do with intellect. > > 4. The sole contents of the intellectual level is not science and > > science is not solely accomplished through subject and object > > reasoning. Agree, the intellectual master-pattern has innumerable offsprings, but all - science included are solely based on the objective attitude. That is so obvious that I wonder if you are "difficult" for the fun of it. > > 5. There has been a tendency in science, particularly philosophies > > of science, to privileged the knowledge of theory over practice or > > experiment. Recent history of science explorations have shown this > > is not only misguided in many cases its just plain wrong. > > Experimental knowledge precedes theory just as often as the > > reverse. The existence, some of the properties, and some uses of > > photons occurred over 80 year before Einstein's theory about them. > > To suggest that this information is not knowledge, or > > intellectual, until there is an abstract theory describing it is > > wrong. I have no idea what this argument is supposed to prove or disprove. Must be some DMB-introduced obscurism. > > Based on the above and particularly 5 I am thinking it is wrong to > > discount the huge number of practical, useful, experiments that > > have occurred though out the thousand of years the social level > > evolved and say that they are in no way an "intellectual" > > activity. Your understanding of what Q-intellect means is so odd that it's difficult to talk to you. The Australian Aborigine surely performed and still performs practical and useful experiments to improve their hunting skills, but to ascribe this to any "intellect" is plain silly. > > So, I'm saying the reverse of your take Dave. That really people > > at the social level were and are a whole lot more "intellectual" > > than give credit for and we would be well advised not the discard > > that knowledge overnight in favor of a half baked theory of > > quality. Particularly Bo's SOL variety. OK, I see, it's DMB you are talking to but as my SOL is mentioned I took the liberty. Bodvar Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
