Hello Ham & DMB & all, > On 2/12/10 Mary said to Steve: > > If we can agree that Western Civilization is built on the idea of the > self > > as supreme and eternal; that all monotheisms are based on that, then > it > > seems pretty clear to me that a religious fundamentalist is simply > someone > > who has taken this notion to its logical conclusion. > > DMB replied: > > That's how James saw it. In the essay titled "Does Consciousness > Exist" > > he says, basically, that the Cartesian subject is a modern, quasi- > secular > > version of the christian soul.
[Mary Replies] Now I need to ask which (if any) philosopher has already come up with the next logical conclusion I have drawn from all this; namely, that all of modern science owes a big debt to monotheism and the attendant idea of the sanctity of the individual for its very existence? As an aside, it's probably somewhat tedious for you to watch me groping along in my ignorance and reinventing the philosophical wheel; while, to me, it's kind of hilarious that I sit here and think up all these things that I am so proud of only to learn that somebody beat me to it 100's of years ago. A humbling experience. :) [Ham then says] > I seriously doubt you will find general agreement on the notion that a > "supreme > and eternal self" is the foundation of Western Civilization. At least, > this > is not at all what America's founding fathers believed. Their belief > was > based > on the inherent (God-given) freedom of the individual. They drafted a > Constitution > that respected the rights of the individual as the "free agent" of > their new > republic. > And they limited the power of Government to ensure the individual's > right to > "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." > > It is fascinating how anti-theists label precepts to demean > subjectivity, as > if > proprietary consciousness was a "religious myth". [Mary Replies] Gee Ham, the "inherent freedom of the individual" is pretty much exactly what I'm talking about! However, I didn't intend to "demean subjectivity" as a "religious myth". It's been a very useful tool for Western Civilization, and (as you just read above) I think is responsible for starting us down the whole trail of scientific inquiry and objectivity. If we hadn't done that, you and I wouldn't be conversing via computer today. So, in a very real sense, the scientific method, democracy, and individual freedom all owe monotheism a big debt. Mary Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
