Interesting thread Third Wave Dave. (Horse's turn to try to put Bo and Platt right)
A question for you. I read and blogged James Austin back in 2004, but when I read him it was one large tome. http://www.psybertron.org/?p=793 What edition do you have that is three volumes ? Regards Ian On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:37 PM, David Thomas <[email protected]> wrote: > Platt >> The other day I happened across what appears to be a contradiction in >> the MOQ as presented in Lila. In chapter 7 Pirsig says, "The world is >> primarily a moral order" and supports his contention by describing all the >> moral choices toward betterness that were made during the course of >> evolution. But then in chapter 11 he wrote: "He let himself get caught in >> the kind of 'picking and choosing' situation that Zen avoids and now he >> was stuck." > For me, like most here I guess and RMP prior to ZaMM for that matter, all > our information comes "book learn'n" which Zen doesn't put much stock in. > > Most recently I've read James Austin's "Zen and the Brain" series of three > books by a neurologist and brain researcher who has practiced Zen for 30 > years and studied it affects on the brain. When he first started Zen in > Japan his Zen master told him it would be most difficult for him to make > much progress because scientists with highly trained intellects have the > most difficulty shutting their "thinking" down. This proved to be true in 30 > years of lay practice he has only reached the lower level altered mental > states, the "first steps" of Zen for a brief moment 2 or 3 times. > > But that was enough to convince him that the whole enchilada is possible. > His research on monks with years of experience has indicated that they can > indeed alter their brain and other physiological patterns significantly > during meditation. And those with the longest and most advanced progress do > have permanent changes in brain activity compared to non practicing > subjects. For me the question is still open is, Just because with years of > practice one can alter the way the brain normally works how is it that this > altered state can be claimed to be in touch with "reality" as it really is? > > >From an MoQ standpoint this seems about right. > >> "In Zen there is reference to 'big self' and 'small self.' Small self is the >> patterns. Big self is Dynamic Quality. (LC, note 29) > > Zen seems to stay that with practice one can achieve brief moments when DQ > is directly perceived as if it was a stable pattern like normal reality and > that this gives one great insight into "everything as it really is." And if > you reach Buddha level this IS your normal reality. For the rest of us mere > mortals we may with much self induced suffering get a taste now and again. > Of the "small self" though Zen suggest one should bring back from these > experiences something that I do not find a obvious place for in the MoQ. > That is wisdom. Zen claims its' insight transcends intellect. The > intellectual level seems to be all about knowledge, Where might wisdom as a > stable pattern lie? > > Dave > >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
