Looks to me, gav, that you've put yourself right back into the SOM soup with your "interior world," completely ignoring Pirsig's hierarchy of MORAL levels and patterns. Pirsig's levels comprise a moral order with only a tangential relationship to the old SOM splits of mind/matter, inside/outside, interiors/exteriors. .
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:33 PM, gav <[email protected]> wrote: > no platt. > the intellectual/individual level *is not about SOM*. > i said that explicitly. *it is about the interior world of imagination.* > > we use imagination - that interior world - to construct SOM, SOL or any > other concept! do you see? > > the interior world is the world of metaphor. literally the translation of > the outside world into an analogous interior world that we can then play > with as a god. this explains the massive intellectual explosion around > 500-700BC - when Jaynes postulates the breakdown of the bicameral mind. it > is this time that spawns the likes of heraclitus, zoroaster, lao tzu, > gautama buddha. > > if you wish to examine the foundations of this interior world i recommend > jaynes' 'breakdown of the bicameral mind (as the origin of consciousness)'; > which pirsig, i believe, recommends also. > > > > --- On Fri, 26/2/10, Platt Holden <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: Platt Holden <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [MD] understanding the levels > > To: [email protected] > > Received: Friday, 26 February, 2010, 9:36 AM > > Thanks gav, you make a good case for > > my suggestion to change the name of the > > intellectual level to the individual level where SOM reigns > > supreme. > > > > Platt. > > > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 4:28 PM, gav <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > the MOQ is an evolutionary hierarchy. > > > > > > to understand it we need to tell the story of the > > evolution of its four > > > levels. > > > > > > the first - the inorganic - is the level of mineral > > matter. at this level > > > entropy is rule. but even at this level there is the > > prototype of the next > > > level's (i believe this must be a feature of all > > levels - reminds one of the > > > tai chi symbol) characteristics. that prototype is the > > crystal. the crystal > > > seems to reproduce itself - but without any > > modification. the crystal also > > > seems to have other properties - electromagnetic, > > magical. some crystals > > > seem to disobey the law of entropy - eg diamond. gold > > also seems to do this. > > > they are intrusions of the eternal on the temporal > > plane. at the inorganic > > > level intelligence is already manifest in the > > inorganic reactions that take > > > place, in the properties of crystals and metals and > > also, most notably in > > > the appearance of water. > > > > > > water is the key to the next level - water is life, > > intelligent, multiform, > > > capable of memory and response. > > > > > > the second level - the biological - comes about proper > > when, in water, > > > complex molecules are borne (lightning strike? - > > cosmogonical parallel - > > > fire, air, earth, water) which can reproduce > > themselves - the forerunner of > > > DNA and the cell. the key to the biological level is > > reproduction, > > > reproduction with modification. evolution now speeds > > up. > > > > > > at the biological level extropy is the rule. organisms > > function > > > synergistically, that is with a mechanical efficiency > > of more than 100%. > > > > > > with the appearance of flowering plants things speed > > up again. sexual > > > reproduction has hit the scene and again we get a > > foretaste of the social - > > > this mating function being the platform upon which the > > society will > > > eventually base itself. > > > > > > also we see the social level foreshadowed in the plant > > and animal realm. > > > most notably with bees and ants. these developments > > are accurate biological > > > analogies for the coming age of man, and his social > > structures. > > > > > > the social level does not arrive proper until we have > > developed language > > > and art and technology. the primates may be argued to > > be very primitive > > > forerunners here. but the show doesn't really hit the > > road til we get > > > vertical, and develop opposable thumb action. it is > > these factors that > > > require greater cerebral coordination, which produces > > a neural net > > > sufficient to allow the evolution of language. > > > > > > the social level, by integrating individuals > > into larger and larger > > > superorganisms, accelerates evolution once more. > > > > > > the social level is still the dominant level today. > > the ego is the social > > > level in the individual. society provides meaning for > > the individual through > > > conformity - the individual sacrifices his/her freedom > > in order to be looked > > > after by the mother-state. the parallel twixt this and > > the ant/bee world is > > > clear. this is the world of the greek gods - benign > > sometimes, manipulative > > > at others. today moloch or mammon seems to capture the > > social spirit best. > > > > > > as before the next level is foreshadowed. it is > > language and art here that > > > start to question the divine right of the gods - for > > that is what society > > > sees itself as, in relation to the individual. this is > > hubris on the part of > > > society for the individual is as much 'god' as itself > > (perhaps more so). > > > this hubris is the beginning of the end for any > > society, from rome to the > > > 'new world order'. > > > > > > in greece the rebellion of prometheus, bringing the > > fire of intellect to > > > man from the gods is key. eden too. the key is > > rebellion. > > > > > > the next level is borne of the growing sophistication > > of language. the > > > power of self-reflection comes with the abstract plane > > of consciousness. > > > this more than any other single thing defines the > > intellectual level (not > > > SOL). *it is an interior world, of imagination*. > > imagination now accelerates > > > evolution exponentially. > > > > > > this interior world is the barrier between the gods > > and the individual. and > > > remember that society is a god - moloch, in this > > context. the imagination > > > frees the individual from the social - but it is his > > choice. does he follow > > > the old road of social conformity, or take the > > difficult high pass of his > > > own conscience? this is the existential question. > > > > > > the individual now divorced from gods (the fall) is > > reconnected to them at > > > a higher level through the hero's journey. by > > undergoing trials by fire, > > > whether through ritual or not, he is forged in the > > crucible of the world - > > > gold sublimated from base metal. the mystery of the > > cross is understood with > > > the whole being, the delphic mission complete - the > > logos inhabited and > > > destroyed. man is now one with the godhead - the > > source of all gods. he has > > > become morally superior to society and is no longer > > subject to its laws or > > > commands. for he lives by a higher law, that is > > incorporated into his very > > > being. he returns to society with the gift of life and > > society is > > > transformed by his return - the balance of nature is > > restored when > > > transformed, the hero returns, with love, to the fold > > of humanity. love is > > > the knowledge of god, of self that reason can never > > achieve. > > > > > > this is all made up > > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > Archives: > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
