On 2 Mar 2010 at 3:01, Ham Priday wrote: Who said that S/O excludes values? I appreciated values long before I ever heard of MOQ, and so did you all. When you fall in love, you value your beloved. If you love music, you don't have to channel into some DQ mode to experience its value. Indeed, how could you enjoy music without hearing it sung or played on a musical instrument? That, my friends, is the value of S/O existence.
Platt Well my friend, those like you locked in S/O existence believe the values you mention are subjective, i.e., not real, just all in your head, like sugar plum fairies. Ham Yet, Platt says "S/O constricts direct experience to subjects and objects." The deception in this assertion is that there is a distinction between "common" experience and "direct" experience, when in fact ALL experience is S/O experience. Platt Wrong. Direct experience occurs prior to division of S/O. This is all basic MOQ stuff. No wonder others question whether you have read Lila. Ham If nothing else, subjects are "experiencers" and everything of value is associated with the experiential (objective) world. Unexperienced value is an oxymoron, or, as Pirsig himself said: "If a thing has no value it doesn't exist." Of course it's conceivable that you could imagine a value that isn't experienced, and you might even call it 'DQ', but where is the justification for positing it as Reality? (And Pirsigians are paranoid about faith-based theories?) Platt Justification? Again, read LIla. Ham We are all value-sensible creatures. Value is what binds us to the essential Source. But we don't "experience" value per se. Cognitive experience is the differentiation of value into things and events (i.e., "value patterns") that constitute our space/time world. Our realization of value--consciously, emotionally, sensually, and intellectually--relates directly to this experience. In short, common experience is as "direct" as human beings ever get to Value. Prior to "differentiation of values into things and events," we experience "value per se." You can't differentiate something that hasn't been experienced first. That's just common sense. ;-) Best, Platt Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
