Absolutely gav (see my previous response in this thread). Ian
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:32 PM, gav <[email protected]> wrote: > wow - i hadn't seen those before. > i really disagree > > i think writing off the bible is very bad idea. we understand our cultural > lineage little enough without ignoring the central text. like telling the > chinese to ignore confucious and lao tzu. > > you can't solve religious problems - they are mysteries. how do you solve the > tao? or the mystery of the cross. pirsig is naive here > > quality is nature; so quality is pantheistic? sounds like spinoza. pantheism > is a theism. > > pirsig misconstrues faith; faith is at the heart of everything - it is what > it means to know oneself. the delphic maxim and faith are identical. > > intellectual truth? what is that? intellectual truth is existential truth - > truth is not generalisable, truth is a pathless land (krishnamurti). > > spirit and faith are existential terms. dropping existential criteria is at > odds with an using a radically empirical metaphysics. it is incongruent. > > from these annotations pirsig doesn't look much better than dawkins. > > > > --- On Fri, 12/3/10, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From: MarshaV <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [MD] atheistic and content >> To: [email protected] >> Received: Friday, 12 March, 2010, 11:11 PM >> >> >> On Mar 12, 2010, at 6:34 AM, gav wrote: >> >> > atheism may be a nonsensical position. >> > it is like saying - 'here is this concept [of god] >> that i have imagined, now i am going to pretend it doesn't >> exist. >> >> >> Gav, >> >> Atheism to me is a low-value social static >> pattern. >> >> [Definition: Atheists are people who believe that god >> or gods >> (or other supernatural beings) are man-made constructs, >> myths and legends or who believe that these concepts are >> not meaningful.] >> >> No existence/non-existence to debate. >> >> > >> > there is no transcendent ground to validate our >> imaginings - quality, god, tao, fish, bubblewrap: all >> imaginary and real >> >> >> There is unpatterned experience which is available, and >> sans drugs offers a rich, vital experience beyond >> words. >> >> A cookbook or a romance novel can contain wisdom. I >> do not know how anyone can defend that violent, sexist crap >> that is the bible. >> >> I was most grateful that RMP, as the MoQ's author, made it >> so clear: >> >> >> "The MOQ supports religion but does not support many >> Christian traditions." >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> The MOQ is an atheistic religious outlook that solves >> rather than bypasses religious problems. >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> "Quality is nature. The MOQ says there is no spiritual >> principle in man that makes knowledge possible. Nature does >> the whole job." >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> “The MOQ does not rest on faith. In the MOQ faith is very >> low quality stuff, a willingness to believe falsehoods.” >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> "The MOQ would add a fourth stage where the term "God" is >> completely dropped as a relic of an evil social suppression >> of intellectual and Dynamic freedom. The MOQ is not just >> atheistic in this regard. It is anti-theistic." >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> "The selling out of intellectual truth to the social icons >> of organized religion is seen by the MOQ as an evil act." >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> “For quality, no faith is required because there is no >> way you can disbelieve that there is such a thing as >> quality.” >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> "When you hear the words 'spirit' and 'faith' always look >> for a traditional religionist trying to sneak his goods in >> the back door. ...like the positivists, the MOQ drops spirit >> and faith, cold." >> (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations) >> >> >> Hurray!!! >> >> >> >> Marsha, of the hurray. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > --- On Fri, 12/3/10, MarshaV <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: MarshaV <[email protected]> >> >> Subject: [MD] atheistic and content >> >> To: "MoQ" <[email protected]> >> >> Received: Friday, 12 March, 2010, 10:14 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> I've always thought of the moq as an >> atheistic, >> >> anti-thesitic place where >> >> I might be a religious person who doesn't believe >> in god, >> >> or better yet, >> >> a place without such divisions as I and >> >> god. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> >> Archives: >> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
