John, the earlier, It seems like the most 'practical' process to increase the Love.
When I'm fully awake, I'll answer the rest of your questions. Marsha On Mar 27, 2010, at 1:09 PM, John Carl wrote: > ok, so a comprehension of emptiness leads to an awakening? > > How? > > And, once accomplished, is that it? Is there more awakening to realize once > you've awakened from one dream into another? > > If so, then is comprehension of emptiness again required? Is it the same > emptiness? Or is it a bigger and more comprehensive emptiness this time? > How many comprehensions of emptiness are there? > > I told you I was a Pry-er. > > John (only it's actually spelled "Pryor") > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:38 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> John, >> >> To be among the awakening. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:03 PM, John Carl wrote: >> >>> Marsha, >>> >>> I agree completely that self and object have no autonomous existence. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> And John, I prefer to use no-thingness, or better yet: emptiness, rather >>>> than >>>> nothingness. Self and objects are empty of an autonomous existence. >>> >>> >>> >>> My only question or challenge for you is prying into what uses you make >> of >>> emptiness? As a goal? As an explanation? As a basis for understanding? >>> >>> OR as an evasion? >>> >>> When does emptiness come in real handy for you? >>> >>> John the Pry-er >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 26, 2010, at 8:17 PM, John Carl wrote: >>>> >>>>> "Among the many forms in which human spirit has tried to express its >>>>> innermost yearnings and perceptions, music is perhaps the most >> universal. >>>> It >>>>> symbolizes the yearning for harmony, with oneself and others, with >> nature >>>>> and the spiritual and the sacred within us and around us. There is >>>> something >>>>> in music that transcends and unites. This is evident in the sacred >> music >>>> of >>>>> every community-music that expresses the universal yearning that is >>>> shared >>>>> by people all over the globe." >>>>> >>>>> -His Holiness the XIV Dalai Lama >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> “I say we fill our guns full of love and we shoot for a new >>>>> dream<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXg6Cm_T9fk> >>>>> ” >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Trance Zen Dance is as cool name for a band, imo. They're a local >>>>> group<http://www.trancezendance.org/home.html>that have been around a >>>>> while so I've heard their names on the radio more >>>>> than a few times, listened to a CD of their music once, from a friend. >>>>> >>>>> We went on a quick trip to Reno, again, while my eldest daughter Em is >>>> home >>>>> for Spring Break. >>>>> >>>>> So what I've been thinking about, between hotels, shopping and eating, >> is >>>> my >>>>> last post to Marsha, and why religious, spiritual or psychological are >>>> all >>>>> inadequate terms for transcendent experience. Even though transcendent >>>>> experience is in a sense, psychological, spiritual and religious. >>>>> >>>>> But really, what it is most of all is experience which takes us out of >>>> our >>>>> static conceptions of self. Transcending our selves. >>>>> >>>>> The problem with labeling this experience "spiritual, religious or >>>>> psychological" is that those are definitions of what lies beyond our >>>> static >>>>> conceptions of self. If we fully realize and conceptualize the >>>> transcendant >>>>> experience with these terms, then we block transcendance. For then, >> our >>>>> "outside" has become part of our conceptual arrangemand we can no >> longer >>>> go >>>>> there in seeking escape from ourselves. >>>>> >>>>> We can't grasp transcendance. >>>>> >>>>> And I think Marsha knows this well, with her embrace of "nothingness". >>>> But >>>>> even nothing becomes something when it's abstracted and aimed at. So >>>> that >>>>> doesn't make me all that happy either. For instance, my nothing is >>>>> completely different from your nothing, since my nothing is dropping MY >>>>> patterns and your nothing is dropping yours. >>>>> >>>>> And then there's the thing that Ron points to with his Emerson quote: >>>>> >>>>> Fresh truth, like the thoughts of genius, >>>>> >>>>> comes always as a surprise, as what Emerson >>>>> calls “the newness” (CW3: 40). He therefore >>>>> looks for a “certain brief experience, which >>>>> surprise[s] me in the highway or in the market, >>>>> in some place, at some time…” (Z: 253). This >>>>> is an experience that cannot be repeated by >>>>> simply returning to a place or to an object >>>>> such as a painting. >>>>> >>>>> A great disappointment of life, Emerson finds, is that one can only >>>>> “see” certain pictures once, and that the stories and people who fill a >>>> day >>>>> or an hour with pleasure and insight are not able to repeat the >>>> performance. >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> >>>>> I'm almost tempted to say, "duh", Ron and Emerson, but that'd be >>>> repeating >>>>> a performance. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Our language, >>>>> Our language of creation, >>>>> Language of liberation, >>>>> We speak into that space >>>>> That we call the now >>>>> As we allow >>>>> To let truth >>>>> Teach us how. >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
