Hi Ian and all, > > Nice one Dave, thanks for digging up the references. > > My same answer was kinda in my question "IF we limit ..." > ie we really shouldn't "limit" - we should see the evolutionary > dynamic value of allowing the Intellectual level to be more than SOM. > (even though it appears simple and convenient to think of it as SOM) > > I was hoping Mary (and Bo) might see this point ? > Ian
[Mary Replies] Digging ever deeper... So, Ian, I gotta ask ya (and DMB and Bo and all) WHAT is the purpose of the Intellectual Level. If we can agree that each level is something that has "taken off on a purpose of its own" and achieved "levelhood" because it wants/desires/values something different from its parent level, then what is the Intellectual Level after? What does it really value that's different from the Social Level? Don't pop off an answer too quickly, you guys. Think about this. I am... still. > > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 5:03 AM, david buchanan > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Ian said to Mary: > > I actually agree with this [the MoQ has much greater explanatory > power when the Intellectual Level is viewed as SOM than when it is not > I actually agree with this] so I ask you a question. If we limit the > intellectual level to this kind of intellect ... where in the > evolutionary levels of the MoQ does your Eastern Mystic view fit? > > > > > > > > dmb says: > > > > In the MOQ's hierarchy of levels the thing that puts intellect at the > top and the reason it's considered the most moral level is not just > because it is more evolved but also more dynamic. It is the most open > to change and growth and evolution. If we limit the intellect to one > particular metaphysical framework, we've arbitrarily arrested its > development. I think its more like a phase in the historical > development of philosophy and culture. That's how James describes it, > as a persistent problem through the history of philosophy since > Descartes, at least. > > > > Above the social-intellectual code, there is the intellectual-dynamic > code. This code of art is about the immorality of suppressing > intellectual creativity, of being too static with respect to science, > philosophy or any other intellectual activity. (Lila, last two pages of > chapter 29) The formation of a new scientific hypothesis is, in this > sense, an act of artistic creation. And so is a new metaphysics. Again, > this morality is not just about what is most evolved but also what's > most dynamic (because that further serves the ongoing process of > evolution). > > > > And it really does seem that there has been a shift in consciousness > in the last century or so. You know, across the whole of Western > culture, not just in philosophy. But this shift certainly show up in > philosophy too. Even in the material sense, we live in a world that's > very different from our ancestors' world. Constant change has become > the norm. Seems like everything is in motion all the time, not least of > all because there are nearly 7 billion of us now. (We should pick a > time and all take a world-wide-nap.) And so this shows up in process > oriented philosophies, dynamic philosophies about streams and fluxes > and evolutionary moralities. Pirsig and James aren't the only ones > who've rejected SOM. It's been coming on for a while and is fairly > common. Hegel, Heidegger, Dewey, to name a few. SOM is criticized in > textbooks and in journal articles. Really, the intellect is not locked > into those metaphysical assumptions. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > inbox. > > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL > :ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
