Hi John, > I put to you the question: > > > > > > Is the ego a biological creation or a socially created pattern? > > > Because I > > > put forth that it is only socially derived and created. > > > > > > > > > > [Mary Replies] If by socially derived you mean at the Social Level, I > would > > ask you to clarify that. Do dogs, for instance, have a Social Level? > I'm > > pretty sure my dog has an ego, the chickens, horses, and goats I used > to > > have did too. > > > > > Dogs very definitely understand and create social patterning. That's > one > reason they blend so well with us, they, like us, are social > carnivores. > Makes us rarities in the animal kingdom. > > > Horse are extremely socially aware, as you know. And so are goats. > Chickens I'm not too sure about. I mean, they congregate and have > herdlike > behavior manifestations, but they have no emotional affect I can relate > to. > > Their facial expression never changes. > > My hypothesis is that social patterning arises with the infant nurture > found > in mammals. Socialization starts with nursing and weaning and implants > that > self-other dichotomy more deeply than intellect can dig out. But > without > this fundamental self-realization, no self-awareness has ever, nor can > ever > arise. > [Mary Replies] It is one thing to differ by degree and another to differ in kind. As I see it, "ego" is fundamentally the recognition of distinctness combined with a "valuing" of that distinction. At its most basic, the ego is the assignment of value to the uniqueness of the entity which possesses it. A fancy way of saying, "I value my own existence".
As we advance up the evolutionary ladder the ego takes on greater and greater complexity. A fruit fly does value its own unique existence and will try mightily to escape a fly swatter, but it does not equate its self-worth with its fruit fly bank account. We do - or some of us do, anyway. That doesn't change the fact that both the fruit fly and the banker are exhibiting behaviors motivated by ego. Being a mammal is not a prerequisite. A fruit fly floating alone in space divorced from its fruit fly friends in its little bitty fruit fly space suit still values its own existence. But maybe not - since its facial expression never changes. :) Did you know that scientists are using fruit flies to study addictive behavior? Apparently the neural pathways involved in the addiction process are the same as for humans. I could be wrong about this, but as far as I know, Inorganic Level rocks do not have an ego, but Biological Level fruit flies do. Now, instead of moving downward from the Biological Level we move upward. I do not believe Pirsig intends for fruit fly society to reside in the Social Level. If both these things are true (the rocks thing and the fruit flies thing) then tell me again where you would put ego? So much "buzzing around" in my head, Mary Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
