Mary asked:
What is the Intellectual Level, and specifically, what makes it different from
the Social Level?
Dave replied:
The first question we have all tried to answer since the discussion group
started years and years ago.
dmb says:
The distinction Pirsig makes is a modification of the old distinction between
mythos and logos. Roughly, that's the difference between myth and logic. For
those who really want to understand what the social level is all about Pirsig
recommends a giant four volume set on world mythology, namely Joseph Campbell's
"The Masks of God". It's awesome. I think a lot can be learned about the
difference between the social and intellectual levels by looking at the
historical examples of the 20th century conflict between them, which continues
to this day. I think this conflict can be seen in the news just about every day
(Better take your passport if you plan on driving through Arizona) and even in
this forum. I think that the long standing confusion over the distinction has a
lot to do with the participants who are dominated by social level values and
very much refuse to see them as such. In an effort to defend or promote theism,
conservatism and various other styles of anti-intellectualism, the issue has
been perpetually muddled and muddied. This obfuscation almost seems deliberate
and malicious sometimes. But the difference between myths and logic, between
ritual and history are easy to see even if it's hard to say what,
"specifically", those difference are. I think it must be a lot like the
difference between power and truth, safety and wonder. There is also something
more organic about the social level, something less deliberately created than
our modes of rationality. Myths and dreams speak the same language, so much so
that Campbell says dreams are private myths and myths are public dreams. They
predate rationality by a long shot. Myths are so old that it's just as accurate
to say that myths created us as it is to say people created myths. To quote my
coffee mug, "stories create people create stories create people create
stories". The phrase looks better on a mug because of the way it wraps around
to meet itself, but you get the idea. They're still with us in our dreams,
books, movies, politics and advertisements. In all those dos and don'ts and
tales of fame and fortune and guys in white hats. I mean, we ARE the social and
intellectual values you're asking about and you should be able to FEEL the
difference in yourself as well as recognize its movements in history and in our
politics.
And hey, check this out. Wiki's most basic description of "Logos" mentions a
couple of Pirsig friends, Heraclitus and the Sophists, and one of his worst
enemies.
Logos (pronounced /ˈloʊɡɒs/ or /ˈlɒgɒs/; Greek λόγος logos) is an important
term in philosophy, analytical psychology, rhetoric and religion. Originally a
word meaning "word," "account," or "reason,"[1] it became a technical term in
philosophy, beginning with Heraclitus (ca. 535–475 BC), who used the term for
the principle of order and knowledge in the Universe.[2] The sophists used
the term to mean discourse, and Aristotle applied the term to rational
discourse.
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