Andre, What kind of pattern is 'shaming'?
Marsha On Jun 22, 2010, at 11:26 AM, Andre Broersen wrote: > Bodvar to Platt: > > I had not followed your debate with Arlo this far before my input, but > yours have been a great show with your salient quotes and keen memory of > where to find them. > > Andre: > I have followed this debate Bodvar but due to internet difficulties (trust > China!)was unable to send a complete response...which has since disappeared > (although I did put it in my 'Drafts' folder). > > Platt had taken Mr. Pirsig's quote from Chapter 24 in LILA. It is a complex > chapter that has to be read in a very detailed way. Early on we follow a very > close scrutiny of the political battle science has had 'to free itself from > domination by social morel codes...'. Mr. Pirsig, within the context of a > 'subject-object metaphysics' calls this the 'intellectual level' but it must > be understood that the MOQ uproots the intellectual source of this > confusion'(this battle) and places this 'idea' (in this process of > incorporatig and recognisig it for what it is, in its prope place namely: > just another instance of intellectual patterns. As Mr. Pirsig says:[the > MOQ's] intellect can support static patterns of society without fear of > domination by carefully distinguishing those moral issues that are > social-biological from those that are intellectual-social...'... and this > includes the conventional subject-object pattern. > > The crucial factor Mr. Pirsig addresses in this chapter are morals, Quality > and not intellectual, social, biological or inorganic patterns. These are > divisions that come later on. His main concern is the way through the > 'forrest'is concentrating on Morality/Quality. > > Seems to me you two are mistaking the tree for the forrest. > > The particular analysis of this battle sets the MOQ's 'larger intellectual > structure', as an example of the liberating root expansion of rationality (as > the central endeavour of Phaedrus' quest in ZMM and continues in LILA) in its > practical,truthful, empirical context. > > 'These subject-object PATTERNS were never designed for the job of governing > society. ( Notice Mr. Pirsig uses the expression 'governing' Bodvar! Not > 'dominating', nothing like: society-is-evil-and must be created anew type > thing, as you seem to imply...no: governing, guiding, correcting, leading). > > 'It's this intellectual PATTERN of amoral 'objectivity' that is to blame for > the social deterioration of America...' ( some of these quotes come from > Chapter 24, and there are more). > > So much for 'salient quotes' and 'keen memory'.You and Platt are suffering > from the Cleveland Harbour Effect, and are totally unaware, it seems, what > disservice you are both doing to the MOQ and the person and intellectual > capacity of Mr. Pirsig himself. I can only find one word for this: SHAME(on > you both)! You two are an absolute disgrace in the context of Mr. Pirsig's > MOQ. To create your own interpretation ( as you two have) 'undermines the > MOQ'. And, as Arlo correctly points out: this is fine but keep your > interpretations as those of yourself and do not correct Mr. Pirsig's > 'meaning' by your continuous raping of the quotes or the discussion at hand. > > All this said of course in my humblest opinion! After all, who am I but a > fleeting moment, a piece of dust in the wind (should I be so lucky) a dream > of my previous life, stuck in my bardo (meaning I am really dead...or in the > process of... ). > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
