On Jul 19, 2010, at 8:02 AM, MarshaV wrote: > > On Jul 19, 2010, at 7:24 AM, Magnus Berg wrote: > >> On 2010-07-19 11:17, MarshaV wrote: >>> Sight at its very least is not about identified objects, only form and >>> color. But one can experience sight sans even form and color too. >>> It is ALL conceived. It's useful and I wouldn't throw away any but the >>> arrogance of thinking the "real" has been realized. >> >> Arrogance is there in SOM, yes, because in SOM, there's no other >> relationship between the perceived object in your head and the object >> observed. >> >> But in MoQ, we know that there *is* a direct dependency from our internal >> image of the object, to the reality of the object via the levels. I'm not >> saying that your brain is supported by *that* stone, but I'm saying that >> your brain is supported by inorganic patterns just *like* a stone. >> >> So, in SOM, ALL is conceived. But in MoQ, where we have the level dependency >> and know that our internal "minds" are supported by inorganic patterns, we >> can know that there are inorganic patterns. From there, I don't think it's >> arrogant anymore to give the stone a status of real. >> >> Magnus > > Hello again, > > First, thank you for the seriousness of this exchange. > > For me the MoQ is Quality(unpatterned experience/patterned experience), all > else is speculation. What you "know" is bits and pieces of ever-changing, > interrelated, impermanent pattern, and I think it arrogant to call that real. > Call it the most useful and best workable hypothesis available at the > moment, but not real. > > > > Marsha >
Magnus, I am of the mind that all patterns have a relationship with thinking and that is the cause of the self/object split. But in the fourth level it has become formalized and can do the most damage by its emphasis an objective, thing-in-itself world and "real" knowledge. Marsha Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
