Krimel said: ... If you mean "overcome" in some obscure Aikido sense; sure; as in we "conquer" or enemies when we make them our friends. But if that's the sense you mean, it's an obtuse way to frame it. ...Life cannot overcome the limits of inorganic forces. It depends upon being in harmony them completely.
dmb says: I think my explanation was quite clear and you're just being intentionally obtuse for the fun of it. It shows a lack of sincerity, I think. [Krimel] I think this shows that you have no idea what you are talking about much less what I am talking about. Furthermore it is pretty clear Pirsig doesn't know what he is talking about with regard to evolution either. I realize that as his chief apologist this puts you in a difficult position and running is a good strategy for you. [dmb] "Mental patterns do not originate out of inorganic nature. They originate out of society, which originates out of biology which originates out of inorganic nature... There is no direct scientific connection between mind and matter. ...Our intellectual description of nature is always culturally derived." (LILA) By contrast, Krimel said: That's life. It arises mysteriously when you mix earth, air and water in sunlight. [Krimel] Here you conflate life and mental patterns. Inorganic patterns, like biological and social patterns are necessary but not sufficient conditions for the production of mental patterns. Saying that we have not found all of the connections between mind and matter is not the same as saying there are none. There is quite a bit of evidence linking specific brain states to specific mental states and I know of nothing whatever that would suggest that they are not directly connected. I have been waiting for about four years now for you to present evidence of a lack of connection. Feel free to do so now. dmb says: Really? You're stick to your reductionist guns, eh? You do realize that this kind of reductionist scientific materialism is central to the problem that the levels are mental to solve. Once again, you're simply offer the problem as an alternative to the solution. This shows a lack of comprehension as to what the problem is. [Krimel] Reductionsim? Again? Why do you go out of your way to embarrass yourself this way, Dave. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
