John, The bottom line always seems to come down to "Oooooo, you've said something bad about rationality". Like to criticize rationality makes me an idiot. But I do not say rationality is BAD, I say it is flawed.
The only way inquiry seems to end on this list is not to turn the sock inside-out, but to stuff it in someone's mouth. Marsha p.s. Criticizing rationality makes perfect sense to me. On Aug 27, 2010, at 5:15 PM, John Carl wrote: > Marsha, > > It seems to me if the MoQ can't extricate us out of the mire of relativism, > we're gonna be really stuck. I think it does get us out by encouraging us > to keep trying. Since we both take as given that Quality is real, we both > have hope of realizing it in unison when we come across it or create it via > dialogue. > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 1:13 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> John, >> >> Isn't your system based on correcting faulty reasoning? Whether >> yes or no, where would insight, feeling, intuition and esthetics >> fit into this process? Feels right to me may never feel right to you, >> but then you might claim victory based on rationality. Where is >> the irrational or superrational a part of the system? >> >> > > Victory? The object of a finite game is to win, but this game is in no way > finite or limitable. It's intrinsically an infinite interpretation. > > The way I think feelings and intuition fit into the process, is that we > experience such, and then share that experience with each other. Sometimes, > my experience doesn't translate easily. But with time and effort, I think > most any feeling or intuition can be shared verbally. I know what you mean, > about the feeling itself, but really we're not trying to feel each other's > feelings. We're trying to understand each other's intellectual > understandings of our feelings. > > Of course, intellect is just a small part of our human experience. But > nevertheless, it's an important aspect and worthy of the attempt to get it > right. And even with its limitations we have no other way of communicating. > > Doesn't that seem right to you? > > John > > PS: I take it you meant "how very rational" in a derogatory way then. > Criticism of using rationality doesn't make any more sense to me than > criticism of my use of English or my use of interpretation. > > > > >>>>> >>>>> I can accept that my interpretation is invalid because it's lazy and >>>>> cliched. I can't accept its invalid simply because it's an >>>>> interpretation. >>>>> >>>>> To me, the process has to go like this: I project, you correct. You >>>>> project, I correct. We keep going till it feels right. We don't quit >>>> just >>>>> because it feels wrong. >>>>> >>>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> How very rational! >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:34 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> John, >>>>>> >>>>>> I reject your interpretations here. Your conclusions seem to me like >>>> lazy >>>>>> cliche. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
