On Aug 28, 2010, at 3:21 PM, John Carl wrote: > Ok, Marsha, I have no idea how to proceed in a dialogue which always ends > in the same formulation. > Neither do I have a clue how to proceed when rationality is rejected.
Not rejected, but understood to be flawed. > My instincts, intuition and all just seem to whisper to me, "this > conversation isn't going anywhere." We agree. > My instincts tell me that you are being over-defensive, and any guess I > publish as to why, gets immediately shot down by you as false projection on > my part. That would depend if you made a false projection. > You post "victory" and "winning an argument" as very important to you and > thus I guess I'll just concede that your superior reasoning (or is it > non-reasoning? You could never be a loser in my eyes. > I admit I'm confused) goes right over my head, and I'll take > your word for it that the last word to any discussion, speculation or query > is not this, not that. > > You win! No me to win. > > Yay Marsha! Boo Marsha if seems the winner. > > I'd never stick a sock in anyone's mouth. I'm not a violent, forceful > type. My leaning is to stick the sock in my own mouth. I am biting my tongue. > Take care, > > John You take care too, Marsha, who is not this, not that... > > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 2:08 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On Aug 27, 2010, at 5:15 PM, John Carl wrote: >> >>> Marsha, >>> >>> It seems to me if the MoQ can't extricate us out of the mire of >> relativism, >>> we're gonna be really stuck. I think it does get us out by encouraging >> us >>> to keep trying. Since we both take as given that Quality is real, we >> both >>> have hope of realizing it in unison when we come across it or create it >> via >>> dialogue. >> >> >> John, >> >> What you state as "the mire of relativism", I experience as >> everything-is-connected-to-everything, which is also expressed >> in the words "no this, not that'. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 1:13 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> John, >>>> >>>> Isn't your system based on correcting faulty reasoning? Whether >>>> yes or no, where would insight, feeling, intuition and esthetics >>>> fit into this process? Feels right to me may never feel right to you, >>>> but then you might claim victory based on rationality. Where is >>>> the irrational or superrational a part of the system? >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Victory? The object of a finite game is to win, but this game is in no >> way >>> finite or limitable. It's intrinsically an infinite interpretation. >>> >>> The way I think feelings and intuition fit into the process, is that we >>> experience such, and then share that experience with each other. >> Sometimes, >>> my experience doesn't translate easily. But with time and effort, I >> think >>> most any feeling or intuition can be shared verbally. I know what you >> mean, >>> about the feeling itself, but really we're not trying to feel each >> other's >>> feelings. We're trying to understand each other's intellectual >>> understandings of our feelings. >>> >>> Of course, intellect is just a small part of our human experience. But >>> nevertheless, it's an important aspect and worthy of the attempt to get >> it >>> right. And even with its limitations we have no other way of >> communicating. >>> >>> Doesn't that seem right to you? >>> >>> John >>> >>> PS: I take it you meant "how very rational" in a derogatory way then. >>> Criticism of using rationality doesn't make any more sense to me than >>> criticism of my use of English or my use of interpretation. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can accept that my interpretation is invalid because it's lazy and >>>>>>> cliched. I can't accept its invalid simply because it's an >>>>>>> interpretation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To me, the process has to go like this: I project, you correct. You >>>>>>> project, I correct. We keep going till it feels right. We don't >> quit >>>>>> just >>>>>>> because it feels wrong. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How very rational! >>>>>> >>>>>> Marsha >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:34 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I reject your interpretations here. Your conclusions seem to me >> like >>>>>> lazy >>>>>>>> cliche. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ___ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>> Archives: >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
