"Real science and real philosophy are not guided by preconceptions of
what subjects are important to consider."
(LILA,Chapter 26)
On Sep 8, 2010, at 8:01 PM, David Thomas wrote:
> On 9/8/10 1:47 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> Seems to me you've mentioned having an understanding of Buddhism.
> [Dave]
> No not really. I've read several books about Buddha and Buddhism. However
> since the most basic precept of Buddhism is that it cannot be understood
> unless one experiences it through long term practice under the guidance of a
> adept teacher, should not anything written about the subject be, just as or
> more suspect, than any claim of science?
>
>> So I meant
>> that things, like photons, chairs, particles spin, are thought to have
>> inherent existence,
>> to have their own being, their own individual independence, rather than being
>> an aspect of
>> interdependent processes. I'm neither a scientist nor a Buddhist, so forgive
>> the inadequacy
>> of my explanation. Can a photon be analyzed and manipulated separately from
>> its causes
>> and conditions? Is the mass of a photon other than conceptually constructed?
>
> [Dave]
> Baking a cake is an interdependent process of ingredients, heat, and time.
> Can you measure a cup of flour separately from the sugar? Does it usually
> make any difference that water necessary for the cake is dependent on a
> water system built and maintained through your payments and taxes? If the
> water commissioner is a Republican is the cake more likely to fall? If it
> does fall is that just a figment of your imagination? Is the cake real?
>
> See how absurd this kind of thinking can become? It's called "lumping".
> Mystic "oneness" is the most extreme kind of lumping. Everything is
> dependent/interrelated with everything else. There is no reality that you
> can know except by finding a guru or a philosopher to lead you down the path
> to enlightenment or insanity. They're both the same you know. Pirsig said
> so.
>
> I know DMB is not your best buds but read his response to my posting and you
> will see the logical but equally absurd extension of James and Pirsig's work
> coming to the same conclusion. There is no reality except the one you make
> up for yourself, all views are equally good, except those made up by
> scientists and priests. The value of this is approach is that it marries
> romantic quality neutered of spirit and faith with classic quality neutered
> of reason and rationality. We are left with rhetoric and sophistry which
> about sums up the current state of the philosophic enterprise. Is their any
> doubt why most Americans are highly skeptical of all systems of philosophy?
>
>> If causes and conditions also have causes and conditions that also have
>> causes
>> and conditions what is lost in creating a false boundary to confine a photon
>> to something definable and analyzable. Can a photon be analyzed meaningfully
>> after such a dissection. Do scientists ask these questions? Do they factor
>> the missing information into experiments? What changes when it is
>> understood
>> that a photon is a static pattern of value?
>
> [Dave]
> Nothing according to Pirsig. The data are the data. And scientists are in
> the business of digging for data. Where the problems arise is when either
> scientists or philosophers try to "interpret" the data and its consequences
> on the usually several collective, competing philosophic views of reality.
>
> Dave
>
>
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