Marsha, I can respect that. I tend to disagree simply for the reason that , that sort of Quality awareness comes with a certain fair amount of low quality consequences.
-Ron ----- Original Message ---- From: MarshaV <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 8:40:47 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual Level Ron, As far I've experienced it, my explanation leaves plenty of room for expansion into a new level of quality awareness. If my explanation is inadequate, I will try to find better words. Meanwhile, you are free to disagree. Marsha On Sep 12, 2010, at 8:10 AM, X Acto wrote: > Marsha, > > I am not trying to say you are "wrong" by any means > > only that your explanations contradict. > > I can appreciate the idea of a dynamic intellect, it's what most of us > here are asserting. But to rest on the idea that SOM IS intellect > only defeats that purpose. It leaves no room for improvement > or development or expansion. It's the epitome of an absolute. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: X Acto <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 7:54:45 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual Level > > Bo would reply: > the MoQ doesent make sense > > it's not supposed to make sense > > it's "out of intellect" > > but > > That leaves the door open for any and all kinds of senseless actions > > for justification of all senseless acts, including senseless violence. > > it's opening the gates of Hell and calling it Heaven. > > All the senseless acts of violence perpetrated against humanity was done so > > in the name of MoQ. Can't say it sounds very apealing to me. > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: X Acto <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 7:47:07 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual Level > > Your whole arguement denies the "many intellectual realities" position. > It denies that objective reification is a value pattern and asserts it as > "how > the brain works" > which is an objective reified assumption. > > see how this denies your own position > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: MarshaV <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 7:39:59 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual Level > > > see below... > > > > On Sep 12, 2010, at 7:30 AM, X Acto wrote: > >> Ok I think I get it >> >> You are appealing to a dynamic unpatterned intellect >> >> but if all thinking, as you suggest when you say that >> "reification is how the brain works" then there is no >> escape from it. >> >> transcendance is literally impossible.(while alive) or being coherent >> in any kind of fashion. >> >> because it would require one to cease >> using the brain. >> >> to then escape SOM we must revert to brainlessness. >> >> But to assert this you must constantly contradict yourself intellectually. >> >> the only way to a quality intellect is to stop using your brain become > mindless >> >> I'd say a good portion of the world is already on that track. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: MarshaV <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 5:07:42 AM >> Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual Level >> >> >> Greetings, >> >> Understanding that that the way we deal with experience is: >> >> >> "... we 'seek and find, or project, a simplifying pattern to approximate >> every > > > > >> complex field ... by lumping (ignoring some distinctions as negligible) and >> by > > > > >> splitting (ignoring some relations as negligible). Both ... create discreet >> entities useful for manipulating, predicting and controlling ... [but] may >> impose ad hoc boundaries on what are actually densely interconnected systems >> and >> >> then grant autonomous existence to the segments' (p. 108). Even the contents >> of >> >> >> >> >> our own consciousness have to be dealt with in this way, resulting in our >> array >> >> >> >> >> of fragmented self-concepts, and we just put up with the anomalies that >> arise. > > > > >> Buddhism, he explains, agrees that discovering entities is conventionally >> indispensable, but attachment and aggression arise through reifying them, >> which >> >> >> >> >> violates the principle that all things are interdependent, and all entities >> are >> >> >> >> >> conditional approximations." >> >> >> My understanding of the Intellectual Level as SOM is: >> >> While the MoQ represents Quality(unpatterned experience/patterned >> experience.) >> >> >> >> >> Intellectual Static Patterns of Value (experiences) are reified concepts and >> the >> >> rules for their rational analysis and manipulation. Intellectual patterns >> process from a subject/object conceptual framework creating false boundaries >> that give the illusion of independence as a “thing” or an “object of >> analysis.” >> >> The fourth level is a formalized subject/object level (SOM), where the >> paramount >> >> demand is for rational, objective knowledge, which is free from the >> corruption > > > > >> of any subjectivity. >> > > > > Then: > > "... One can then examine intellectual realities the same way he examines > paintings in an art gallery, not with an effort to find out which one is the > ‘real’ painting, but simply to enjoy and keep those that are of value. There >are > > > > many sets of intellectual reality in existence and we can perceive some to > have > > more quality than others, but that we do so is, in part, the result of our > history and current patterns of values. > > (RMP,LILA,Chapter 8) > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
