On Sep 19, 2010, at 4:30 AM, Andre Broersen wrote: > Marsha to dmb: > > So that's it? Somebody asks how does the MoQ put feelings and passions > back into rationality, science and mathematics, you tell them you do not > understand the question. You did state that your version of "the MOQ's fourth > level gives us an expanded form of rationality that includes feelings, > passions, > alternate modes of consciousness" but you cannot explain how. > > The question was about the fourth level within the MoQ, intellectual patterns > of > value. > > Andre: > Dmb doesn't understand the question because your question reflects your > misconception > about the MOQ and especially about the fourth level. Firstly: the MOQ is an > INTELLECTUAL > pattern of value.It is an idea. It suggests that the best way to understand > the world we live in is in > terms of values.(DQ/sq) > > MOQ's intellectual level, its social level, its organic level and its > inorganic level sit in an > evolutionary relationship to one another. It shows that here is an affective, > pre-intellectual value > out of which arise the symbols we use to make sense of the world we live in. > However, this way of understanding the world/the cosmic universe is still an > idea, not in the > Cartesian sense, not in the sense of conventional subject-object metaphysics, > but in terms of values. > In terms of Quality.(DQ/sq)
For me the reification of "objects of analysis" creating a formal SOM mode of thinking as I describe it arises out of the social level. This happens at the time of Plato and Aristotle just as RMP as suggested. Intellectual patterns of value are still static patterns of value, but I am describing how I see them functioning. Dmb, btw, offered all his quotes from ZMM which makes no reference of the MoQ, including the evolutionary, hierarchical structure, the four levels or even static patterns of value, when the subject of my definition was specifically intellectual static patterns of value. From a ZMM point-of-view, I will agree that Value/Quality comes before the subject/object split so quality is entire event. But once the MoQ has created types of static patterns of value and categorized them, the question of how they function becomes interesting. > > It suggests that intellectual patterns of value emerge out of social patterns > of value which emerge > out of organic patterns of value which emerge out of inorganic patterns of > value. I agree with this as stated above. My definition suggests how intellectual static patterns of value function: logic, science, mathematics, philosophy. My definition does not negate this. > Their 'extrapolation' and ordering has been done for clarity's sake. For > making the whole process > emerge as a harmonious metaphysical unity. And I am exploring the 'ordering'. Is that to be prohibited? > This can be summarized as DQ/sq. The Metaphysics of Quality, an intellectual > pattern of value. > > This is my explanation to your 'how' question Marsha. > >From my point-of-view there is an emerging level where value is known as >primary from a higher plane, and fourth-level, intellectual patterns as tools are used for creating and implementing a higher quality experience/environment. Where one "can then examine intellectual realities the same way one examines paintings in an art gallery, not with an effort to find out which one is the 'real' painting, but simply to enjoy and keep those that are of value. There are many sets of intellectual reality in existence and we can perceive some to have more quality than others, but that we do so is, in part, the result of our history and current patterns of values." My questions specifically were how are feelings, passions and other modes of consciousness included back into rationality as dmb suggested? How are they included back into science? How are they included back into mathematics? How? I see description, but no explanation. Marsha ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
