Hey Mark, On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 3:34 PM, 118 <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi John, > > No I didn't see the performance, yet. It may sound like a bunch of Western > bull, but is is what Buddha preached. Check out the Diamond Sutra. The > point is, that once one gets rid of the ego, that concept of inherent > arising, all one is left with is selfless compassion. Hmmm... how can you have "self'less without an ego? I do attest to the ultimate emptiness of ego. To some people, who live by ego, that seems like Nihilism, and they mean this in a good way. They're so fixated on ego, that if the ego is nothing (Buddha's conclusion) then all is nothing (Nilism's conclusion) since they're so wrapped up in them selves. Other people fixate an other objects - imagined or real or an entanglement between, and because in the final analysis, these objects of fixation are empty, then there is only emptiness for them. They don't understand that "entanglement between". Quality is not emptiness. Quality is filling. It is DQ which is the necessary and creative gap-filler between who we are and what we experience, and in any realistic analysis of things, is the only reality - the entanglement between. > Now the whole bit of > becoming enlightened and joining unity is something that I can't speak to. > Yes, I see what you mean. > Buddha did that during his previous existence and then decided to come > back > and teach. Can't argue for or against it being true. Buddha doesn't teach "previous existence" It was the paradigm of his day, but he was too skeptical for that. How can you preach a continuing "self" when you also preach that self is ultimately empty? Many Buddhist scholars that I've read have made this point. The first that comes to mind is Steve Asma. Ask Dan if he finished the book yet, he'll at least vouch that the point is made therein, and it seems an awfully good point to me. > None the less, it > doesn't sound like Nihilism to me, although it may sound like that to > Westerners full of bull. > > It doesn't sound Nihilism to me either, Mark. Nor does it sound like bull. It sounds like philosophy, pure and simple. "The only pure empiricists are the mystics" It sounds to me like a man taking the bull by the horns, grabbing them both, one in each hand, and staring into the eyes of this strange animal bearing the horns - seeing what's really there, rather than reifying what isn't. Buddha wasn't a religious figure, he was the world's greatest cowboy, is what he was. All in good fun indeed, John > Cheers, > Mark > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:11 AM, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hey Mark, > > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 4:03 PM, 118 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Well John, > > > > > > If nihilism is being used as a negative term, then I would have to say > > that > > > B. A. Wallace has not understood living in the assumption of Emptiness. > > > > > > > Did you see the video? Did you see the nifty sash the guy wore in the > pic > > accompanying the video? obvious he knows what he's talking about! Ok, > > maybe it takes more than a sash, but somehow I'd assume that a guy who > > translates Physicists for the Dalai Lama probably does know something > about > > Buddhism and conceptions of emptiness. He sounded pretty convincing to > me. > > > > And furthermore, I don't see how you can characterize Nihilism in > anything > > BUT negative terms, since it's practically centered upon that whole > concept > > - negativsm. > > > > > > > > > > > Let's look at where it takes one. The end result of Buddhist > philosophy > > > is > > > complete selfless compassion for all living beings. Now if that comes > > from > > > Nihilism, then I am all for it. And I agree, Quality is also a > positive > > > goal. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > The end result of Buddhist philosophy is to take you back to where you > > started on your journey and present you with the immediate present. You > go > > out with a bull, you come back with a bull. Your "complete selfless > > compassion for all living beings" sounds to me like a lot of western > bull, > > slapped on from a hodgepodge of unexamined assumptions and religious > mumbo > > jumbo. > > > > And all Nihilism gets you is disaffected poseurs piercing themselves > > because > > its the fashion of the day. > > > > At least we do agree - Quality is a positive goal. > > > > take care, > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:55 AM, John Carl <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > Well Marsha and Mark, > > > > > > > > In the snipped interview of B. Allen Wallace, he says, in > disparaging > > > the > > > > idea of emptiness as being an object of creed or belief, that it'd be > > as > > > > ridiculous to say that one believes in wood. "that's great. You > > believe > > > > in > > > > wood. Now the question is, can you build anything of it?" > > > > > > > > If you make Emptiness your creed, you're a Nihilist. He also > > disparages > > > > that common mistake. > > > > > > > > The way he uses "emptiness" is in his explanation of SOM. > > > > > > > > "When we think about a subject, in itself or an object, in itself, > > we're > > > > talking about nothing at all - a null set." > > > > > > > > I agree completely. > > > > > > > > He's a good speaker, and I enjoyed the clip. Thanks for posting, > > > although > > > > I > > > > think he completely negates the idea that Emptiness=Quality. > > > > > > > > Quality is a positive goal. > > > > > > > > John > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > > Archives: > > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > Archives: > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
