Hi dmb, I am a little slow. Could you give me a definition for SOM? The shorter the better, and I won't read between the lines. I may be operating under false premises. If that is not possible, please direct me to a web site that does.
Thanks, Mark On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:15 AM, david buchanan <[email protected]>wrote: > > Marsha said to Dan: > In Anthony's PhD it states that science, theology, mathematics and > philosophy are intellectual quality patterns. So here's my understanding of > the Intellectual Level: ...Intellectual patterns process from a > subject/object conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the > illusion of independence as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.” The > fourth level is a formalized subject/object level (SOM), where the paramount > demand is for rational, objective knowledge, which is free from the taint of > any subjectivity like emotions, inclinations, fears and compulsions in order > to pursue study and research in an unbiased and rational manner. > > > Dan replied: > You almost had me. I actually thought you might be getting it. But then you > have to throw a monkey wrench into the works and foul it all up. Where in > Anthony's work does it say the intellectual level is a formalized SOM? > Anywhere? Or are you like Bo, just picking and choosing what you agree with? > Maybe you and John and get together and relive the old times. Why do I > bother? > > > dmb says: > Let us pause for a moment to consider Marsha's spectacularly bad reasoning > skills. > > First, we have Ant's dissertation telling us that science, theology, math > and philosophy all count as intellectual patterns. Surely this means that > each of them would be a subset within the larger intellectual level. > Subject-object metaphysics is certainly not the only philosophical stance. > (And as we all know, rejecting SOM is central to the MOQ, not to mention > other anti-SOM philosophers like James and Dewey.) So SOM is a subset of a > subset of the intellectual level. > > Let's use "modes of transportation" as an analogy. In this analogy Ant's > quote says that planes, trains and automobiles are modes of transportation. > Marsha then reasons that "modes of transportation" is defined as a Ford > truck. This is just a spectacularly bad category error. It's the kind of bad > logic that says 15% of the total is equal to the total. There is no way to > make that add up. Imagine a painting bigger than the gallery it hangs in. > Imagine taking that analytic knife away from Phaedrus and telling him there > is only one way to carve up reality. > > Imagine an very unskilled person got a hold of that knife and used it to > cut off her own hands. I mean, even if the reasoning were sound, the > consequences would be a complete disaster. If subject-object metaphysics > were equal to the entire intellectual level then no other metaphysics could > be possible. If that equation were true, then the MOQ would not be possible > and this discussion group would be quite pointless. If we accept Marsha's > conclusion, then the MOQ is defined as the very stance it rejects and it > can't really serve as an alternative SOM and Pirsig's root expansion of > rationality is doomed to end in failure before it ever starts. If SOM is the > enemy and SOM is the intellectual level, then intellect is the enemy. Then > science, theology, mathematics and philosophy are the enemy. The consequence > is anti-intellectualism and intellectual paralysis. > > Marsha's reasoning is spectacularly bad and the consequences of her > conclusions are even worse. It is a tour de farce of staggering stupidity. > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
