Dmb with an intelligent interlocutor such as yourself I could debate
that, but honestly even Pirsig in the quotes you provide, indicates
that the "left" lost any intellectual moral high ground it should have
had.
If we established some working understanding of left I could easily
agree with you, but in the cartoon world of mass media, they're as low
quality as each other. And whilst MOQ wallows in the same mire as
populist politics count me out. Personal choice, not a criticism of
yourself and Arlo say, if you wanna fight that battle, but there are
bigger fish to fry for me.
The quality of argument itself. Each to his own.
Ian
Sent from my iPhone
On 25 Oct 2010, at 19:31, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote:
Ian said:
Nothing wrong with politics Platt, just partisan politics that is a
product of SOMism. Left right left right left right subject object
subject object .... Zzzzzz
dmb says:
I don't see how it makes any sense to dismiss partisan politics as a
product of SOM. As Pirsig paints it, the conflict between right and
left is a conflict between social and intellectual values. It's a
moral battle and an evolutionary struggle. Two or three chapters of
Lila are dedicated to an explanation of this conflict, with many
specific examples from history and politics. And yet you're bored by
the left-right conflict in our politics?
"...a culture that supports the dominance of intellectual values
over social
values is absolutely superior to one that does not." (Lila, p.311)
"That's what neither the socialist nor the capitalist ever got
figured out.
From a static point of view, socialism is more moral than
capitalism. It's a
higher form of evolution. It is an intellectually guided society,
not just a
society that is guided by mindless traditions. That's what gives
socialism its
drive. But what the socialist left out and what has all but killed
their whole
undertaking is an absence of a concept of indefinite DQ. You go to any
socialist city and it's always a dull place because there's little
DQ. On the
other hand the conservatives who keep trumpeting about the virtues
of free
enterprise are normally just supporting their own self-interest.
They are just
doing the usual cover-up for the rich in their age-old exploitation
of the
poor. Some of them seem to sense there is also something
mysteriously virtuous
in a free enterprise system and you can see them struggling to put
it into
words but they don't have the metaphysical vocabulary for it any more
than the socialists do." (expanded a bit by dmb)
"It is not that Victorian social economic patterns are more moral than
socialist intellectual economic patterns. Quite the opposite. They
are less
moral as static patterns go."
Now think about social level values as Pirsig describes them and
then read Altemeyers description of right-wing authoritarians. It's
quite obvious to me that Pirsig's portrait of the neo-Victorians is
well supported by Altemeyers' findings. I've seen other studies that
say the same thing. And it's also pretty obvious that the tea
baggers fit into the general pattern of other social level
reactionaries. The following three paragraphs are quotes...
"According to research by Altemeyer, right-wing authoritarians tend
to exhibit cognitive errors and symptoms of faulty reasoning.
Specifically, they are more likely to make incorrect inferences from
evidence and to hold contradictory ideas that result from
compartmentalized thinking. They are also more likely to
uncritically accept insufficient evidence that supports their
beliefs, and they are less likely to acknowledge their own
limitations. Nevertheless, there is no connection between
authoritarianism and either low or high intelligence. In terms of
the five factor model of personality, authoritarians generally score
lower on openness to experience and slightly higher on
conscientiousness.
Altemeyer suggested that authoritarian politicians are more likely
to be in the Conservative or Reform party in Canada, or the
Republican Party in the United States. They generally have a
conservative economic philosophy, are highly nationalistic, oppose
abortion, support capital punishment, oppose gun control
legislation, and do not value social equality. The RWA scale
reliably correlates with political party affiliation, reactions to
Watergate, pro-capitalist attitudes, religious orthodoxy, and
acceptance of covert governmental activities such as illegal
wiretaps. Although authoritarianism is correlated with conservative
political ideology, not all authoritarians are conservative, and not
all conservatives are authoritarian. It is also worth noting that
many authoritarians have no interest in politics.
Authoritarians are generally more favorable to punishment and
control than personal freedom and diversity. For example, they are
more willing to suspend constitutional guarantees of liberty such as
the Bill of Rights. They are more likely to advocate strict,
punitive sentences for criminals, and they report that they obtain
personal satisfaction from punishing such people. They tend to be
ethnocentric and prejudiced against racial and ethnic minorities,
and homosexuals."
dmb
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