well, Andre , you keep on amazing me, the virtue you are showing , the purity, the curiosity for the light.... really incredible. You seem to have an intrinsic instinctive notion about the work that is presented. Strange , most people don't like progress, you seem to deviate by demanding progress, the quality of an explorer. Currently i 'm working on something,..exploring the field in front of us,.. knowledge, purity, wisdom, ...
Found an interesting source again in "LILA", still need to do some work on it , maybe a month or so, only to make the point. I think i will share it with you, if it is shaping itself, or displaying its hidden shapes. Maybe you can help me with it, its a promising field, based on the presented material,..nothing else,-pure, a field of nuggets. Ever heard of graphikal idealism? some Dutch people are experts in the field,..and currently i'm talking to a Hollander in the late evenings,on my brothers boat, here in the canal Gent -Terneuzen.(some beer is involved) Yes , one of my brothers owns a boat, very nice one, and he is a very pure native Pirsig addict, along with his Dutch friend. And it is this Hollander pointing me out towards graphikal idealism. He told me this as a lead . In "LILA" , Mr Pirsig is mentioning the Currier and Yves feeling, projected toward the Hudson, pointing out towards graphikal idealism. Both, the Hudson, and the Currier an Yves feeling are pointing towards a projection of playing with idealism along the creation of "LILA"..... Try this ,Andre,- "Currier and Yves" as google surch term, and set for picture's, the result needs to be filtered for the Hudson. This generates an astonishing result, yes , graphikal idealism, he was playing with it all the time, only to leave it near the end of "LILA" to step to real hard coded realism, idealism is an illusion, but he was playing with the illusion all the time. If you like , i will send you some Hudson art work from Currier an yves, availiable on the web, Graphikal idealism, shaping the surroundings of emerging realism.Shaping the environment that made "LILA" possible to be created. sorry for the condensed style, ...short of time.( on my brother's boat). 2010/10/27 Andre Broersen <[email protected]> > Mark to Andre: > > If we are talking about the beginning in terms of universe creation (as the > Word implies), then I have the following question: Does MOQ necessarily need > a beginning to function. Are the same premises valid in a universe that has > always existed and is changingf (the Static Universemodel)? > > Andre: > Hi Mark. I'll give you a few MOQ ideas which may clarify: > > 'The MOQ holds that experience is the starting point'. (Annotn 31) > > 'In the MOQ, nothing exists prior to the observation. The observation > creates the patterns called 'observed' and 'observer'. Think about it. How > could a subject and object exist in a world where there are no > observations'(Annotn 65) > > Notice here that Pirsig does not ask how there can be an observer without > anything being observed (as Ham does)or ,for that matter how there can be > anything thing to be observed without an observer (this would set up a > contradiction in terms because it would beg the question). > > The MOQ starts with sentience and in this sense it would agree with > Siddhartha Gautama be silent on 'beginnings'. The MOQ accepts the idea of a > 'big bang' beginning. It accepts this as a high quality intellectual pattern > of value but, of course is provisional. > > Mark: > > Secondly, there is personal experience and there is vicarious > experience,and there is abstract experience, among others. Would a mystical > experience be included in radical empiricism? > > Andre: > Absolutely. If you read ZMM and LILA you'll find that the 'mystical' > experience is responsible for Phaedrus abandoning his classic-romantic split > of dividing Quality in favour of the more inclusive DQ/sq > split.(LILA,pp112-9). This, by the way, has also had some significant > implications for Phaedrus' ideas about the > function/role/action/participation of the intellectual level > > I would suggest, but stand corrected, that radical empiricism and the > Buddhist 'path to enlightenment' have very strong similarities. I haven't > thought this through enough yet though, but maybe an interesting path to > pursue. > > Mark: > > I wouldn't bring Buddhism in unless you know what you are talking > about,that statement is misleading and open to all sorts of interpretations. > > Andre: > I just did and am interested in hearing your views. > > Mark: > > > Artificial would imply created by the mind, kind of like a constellation is > artificial. It seems that radical empiricism can tend towards Scientific > Materialism or Positivism. In your opinion, is this a correct > interpretation? I can always learn. > > Andre: > What I meant by forcing parts into a unity ( a One, an Absolute) is fine so > long as the construction can be verified through experience. This is the > touch stone of pragmatism and the rigorousness of radical empiricism. Claim > anything you want but make it experimentally verifiable. This is the MOQ's > test of truth, this is the MOQ's scientific approach. (and I do not need to > remind you that the basis i.e.the fundamental reality out of which the MOQ > emerged is indeed DQ/sq). > > Scientific materialism and Idealism have been united within the MOQ, each > given their due, their place and their role and thus, withing the MOQ > umbrella, their limitations. > > And I do want to emphasize here Mark that I am battling as hard as you are > to get as much mileage out of the MOQ as Mr. Pirsig had intended. It is > occupying a large part of my life. I do not know or understand all and > everything. That is what we are here for on this discuss. > > I think I have a fair grasp on what it is not ( which is useful) but > everyday something will pop up and will remind me of a word or sentence of > either ZMM or LILA and connect these to moment-to-moment experiences of > which our days consist, and illumine those parts least expected. And then > revitalize oneself with gumption. > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
