Hi Craig, I believe that the problem with mistaking Reality with its description is when we invoke Truth to such a thing. I believe this is at the core of ZMM. Otherwise, they are all Reality, every single bit, thoughts and all. The driving force is Quality, or what separates, Truth is a set stepping stones across the river. Watch out for the Hippos! We don't want to drown and need some kind of happy medication or treatment.
I am happy to proceed with further discussion, wherever it leads. I can always change my mind. If I couldn't I would be stuck in Dogma, or Truth, or a tar pit in La Brea. Gone the way of the Wooly Mammoths, or worse, become a Christian. :-) Cheers, Mark On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 12:39 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > [horse] >> the Intellectual level contains both metaphysical systems, SOM and >> MoQ. > > [Steve] >> The MOQ (Pirsig's philosophy) is capable of being >> described in MOQ terms (Pirsig's vocabulary) just as the word "vocabulary" >> is contained within your vocabulary without any violation of container >> logic. The MOQ doesn't literally contain itself, but it does describe itself >> as an intellectual pattern. >> This is only a perceived problem [if] metaphysics is >> reality rather than words about reality. > > [Platt] > >> You can't have box 'A' (the MOQ) contain within itself box 'B' >> (intellectual level) which in turn contains box 'A' (the MOQ). > > But Steve/Horse/et al.'s position is: > You CAN have box 'A' (Reality) contain within itself box 'B' > (intellectual level) which in turn contains box 'C' (the MOQ). > But just because Platt's "container argument" doesn't work, it doesn't > follow that Platt/Bo/Marsha are wrong. They can deny that > there is any possibility of distinguishing Reality from > the structuring/description of Reality. > IMHO this is where the Mdiscussion must proceed. > Craig > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
