Marsha, Heartfullness seems closer to DQ than intellect, but as all men can attest, the heart often seems more than fickle.
Yours, John http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFnSgPC-VXA On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 12:22 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hello Tim, John and Mark, > > To me Mark is closer to heart when he describes it as DQ. It is outside > all static patterns, and to the degree it is experienced brings joy. > > > Marsha > > > > > > On Dec 17, 2010, at 2:49 PM, John Carl wrote: > > > Tim and Marsha, > > > > [Tim] > >> I think it is here that you have given me the link I needed to express > >> myself to Marsh. This arty, feely, aestheticy thing is what I was > >> getting at with 'heart' - when I said that I was in your camp. However, > >> I think the intuition that had me insert 'anything else?' is what I need > >> to make it come together - without it even the finest art would be > >> torture (I had made the contention, to Ham, that pure sensibility would > >> be torture). There is an intellectual aspect surrounding DQ! > > > > > > John: > > > > I agree. Isolated from mind, "heart-fulness" is just as insane as > > mindfulness focused solely on intellect. The two are inextricable. > Pirsig > > encapsulates it well with his formulation "science that is ugly and art > that > > makes no sense". > > > > The Eastern ways of liberation encapsulate it well with that bit of > > graphical idealism - the yin/yang symbol. > > > > I look at "DQ" as the pull on the human heart and mind, which drives us > to > > create logical and beautiful expressions of reality. And I think the guy > > who equated "Truth" and "Beauty" made a good point. > > > > > > Tim: > > > > > >> One has > >> to be able to choose to quit the particular art that, if forced upon him > >> long enough, would be torture. This will of the I is vital. And, since > >> when we come out the other side of the doorway of DQ, we must decide > >> before we know what we are deciding: pre-intellectual awareness, we have > >> to have some aspect of pre-awareness choice. There is so much we might > >> be aware of at any moment, but the choice to be aware of that specific > >> locale of reality came prior to it. (Either this is effifying DQ) or > >> else there is a third intellectual component (at least) which is the > >> intelligence needed to choose amidst this unknown. It seems that there > >> is a counterpart (for balance) on the front end too: a willful act > >> requires a choice at the front (what is important, best), and with this > >> in possession, some sort of _____________ (what?) which predisposes the > >> 'I' to a preparedness for the future that is to come. A faith aspect to > >> intelligence if you will. > >> > >> I think we see eye to eye on the lukewarm versus balance business. :-) > >> > > > > John: "eye to eye" is an interesting aphorism to me, as it plays with > one > > of the two modes of human perception - sight, what we perceive as an > > holistic image that we take to be real. As opposed to the hearing of the > > word that we perceive as being true. > > > > > >> > >> [Tim] > >> probably no better way to 'deal with it' than by play! > >> > >> > > "As a human being you are a collection of many things: skin, bones, > brains, > > experience and emotion. But more than all of that, you are your > > expectations. That's why I choose to be optimistic." -- Scott Adams > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
