David, Yes - making sense IS what is most important - and notice that I DID say that it is a generality used often by both sexes in all kinds of relationship dynamics Not just 'romantic couples'.
I was very careful not to make it just about the boys vs. the girls. If anything, I almost always side with the boys in those discussions. I was ALSO careful to say I believe in 'equal rights AND equal lefts' which means that yes, I don't think wives ought to do it either. It is quite common in relationships that people do this to each other- which is my point. That's what "Who am I to limit your experiences" is all about. I think what I was moving the discussion to (or at least attempting to/thinking about when I wrote this) was the idea that underlying our language with each other (all human beings) we often use phrases that imply levels of control we perceive we have in relation to the other (naturally, husbands/wives have historical, culturally perpetuated static sets of patterns of communicating with each other like this). Has anyone read Pinker's book, "the stuff of thought"? fascinating. It's about his theories about verb usage. His belief is that (in more languages than just english) verbs are conjugated differently based on what type of physical activity is happening. And we learn this during our earliest experiences learning to speak at 2-5 years old. His research shows that we are not just 'copying' our learned language from adults - there is more to it than that - we learn patterns of how to conjugate verbs and they all have to do with the type of physics that is occuring and how it is taking place in relation to our body and our perception of space and time. So basically, for me, exploring the subtleties behind our use of language is interesting in a 'striving' for better dynamic quality - I don't want to have the same ol' relationship experiences, with the same ol' ways of communicating. BUT- just for the record - I AM very much a a GIRL too...and I do seriously appreciate/reciprocate the knight in shining armour men/gestures...but I just don't want to turn into the 'ball and chain' at home who won't 'let' you go down to the pub with the guys... Ownership/non-attachment...what is static/what is dynamic...all interesting items to debate philosophically. mm -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of david buchanan Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 4:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] What a woman really wants margaret said: - ...I have to agree with Marsha on this one. The story is beautiful - but I've always taken special offense when the language says: "he would *allow* her to make the choice"; he would "*let her*...be in charge of her own life"... I once had a boyfriend who said: '...but I 'LET' you do whatever you want... I gently tried to explain the difference, but I don't think he EVER understood the underlying implications of using the words in this way. dmb says: Oh, c'mon ladies. Let's keep it in perspective. It is simply unrealistic to expect proper feminist attitudes from pre-modern European fiction. We're talking about a time of feudalism and witch burnings. And is it really important that your boyfriend phrase his respect for your autonomy so carefully? That seems waaaay too picky to me. And how many wives won't "let" their husbands do this or that? Plenty, that's for sure. Don't make it about boys versus girls. Gender isn't terribly relevant in a disembodied philosophical discussion group like this one. Making sense is what matters, right? The type of equipment in one's pants shouldn't effect that. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
