Ok Andre, More fray:
John to Andre: > > > I wasn't saying DQ isn't real. I was saying that sq isn't. The > realization that sq isn't real, is what lies at the heart of a true MoQ > realization. > > Andre: > Ahh, is this a trend I notice? Marsha, Mark and now you, John, suggest that > 'all' is ever-changing and, I presume, therefore not real. Only DQ is. > > John: Its an incontrovertible truth, Andre. Surely you aren't going to refute people spouting incontrovertible truths. Andre: > As Mark remarked:'The pattern is continually changing depending on who is > doing the thinking. Even the way in which the pattern is changing, is > changing. Even this change is changing. That fact that things are changing > is changing. Change is not static, it is dynamic'. > > Well, I have said some silly things on this discuss but, really, this takes > the cake. Where, may I ask does Pirsig suggest that sq is not real? Or > doesn't Mr. Pirsig matter anymore? > > John: Oh. I guess you are. Hmmmm..... I'll offer you a counter question, since you set yourself up as some sort of authority on what Mr. Pirsig has said or not said: Where has Mr. Pirsig said that anything less than Quality itself is ultimately real? > Andre: > Thank you for helping me/you John, I appreciate it. As for the latter > part:no, I do not get what you mean. Static patterns do not 'contain the > implication of DQ'. Static patterns do not change in and of themselves. John: sq, andre. Not "static patterns". Consider the vast difference of those two terms relative to DQ. "sq" is not merely static, it's static QUALITY, and that includes an understanding and recognition of the primary empirical reality of all existence. And I'd say that while you could say that static patterns do not change of themselves, they do change in relation to static forces (patterns) of known or unknown persuasion. Andre: > It's values don't change by themselves. Only Dynamic Quality can alter them > and if that doesn't happen they keep on saying the same things year after > year. Remember the Zuni brujo story? > > John: But remember that entropy changes things too. Change happens regardless of what particular forces are the agents of change. Change just happens. Shit happens, and that's a GOOD thing. (hey Krimel) Andre: > > I was almost reluctant to quote anything from Pirsig since I strongly > believe that you and Marsha, Mark and Mary (forgotten anyone?...perhaps Joe, > who considers DQ to be emotions or is it the other way around?)consider his > writings on the MOQ obsolete because ancient, old-fashioned, superseded by > your own, far more powerful interpretation and thereby creating far more > explanatory power for the entire universe and personal living of life in the > dreariness of living it (paraphrasing Freud). > > John: That "projection thing" that inspired so much of dmb's work, must be catching Andre. Getting a little world-weary? Andre: > I am almost at a loss for words. Change for change's sake. Wow! Where am I > going to hang my hat? > > John: My advice, is whatever convenient hook seems to be of the right shape and size and projection. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
