Hi dmb, >From my readings of pre-modern Gods, like those who the Sumerians wrote about, there was no sense that God's decided humans fate. In fact there are tales in both Greek and Norse mythology that humans did battle against the Gods, because they did not like the interference. The notion that Gods control our free will is much newer, after Plato. In fact the notion of such a God is probably more prevalent in very modern times (new age movements) where the concept of freewill has become confused by logic.
Our notion of Gods is much more primitive than it used to be in pre-modern times. This probably has something to do with the societal level subject-object metaphysics where we tend to rely on words more than in pre-modern times. This societal domination through words has led to many interesting paths, each one further from the original (and more real) sense of reality. The bewitchment of the Word takes us away from experiencing Quality in its infinite complexity, now we are simply walking libraries whose free will is under much more control than it used to be. Yes, this present day heading towards determinism is indeed bleak. I believe that MoQ can turn this propensity around. It may take a while however, especially since the world is becoming much more connected through words. Reality now lies in a string of words on a computer screen. It is important to see it for what it is, however. (William S. Burroughs had some interesting theories on the viral properties of words. He was one of the great American writers.) Free will can be considered a personal choice, although there are those who claim we have been determined to believe in free will. On the other hand we are free to choose determinism. The latter is like electing a ruler who changes the constitution so that he never leaves power, the other is more like an ever changing democracy, so long as one side does not take complete control. Me, I choose free will. Cheers, Mark On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 2:27 PM, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Dan said: > ... I am guessing all the major religions use the notions of free will and > determinism to explain the problem of good vs evil. That would seem to point > to previous religious ideas far older than our "modern" ones, from which they > are all descended. > > > dmb says: > I think that's right. It hardly seems like the same thing at all on the > surface. In pre-modern times determinism meant that the gods had already > decided your fate but for the century or two determinism has meant that you > are bound and determined by natural laws. The former is based on the whims of > the gods and the latter is based on a perfect chain of causality that extends > from the big bang to the end of this sentence. In both cases, your so-called > choices are not really choices at all and were in fact decided long ago. > Either way, determinism is absolutely bleak. Who doesn't bristle and shudder > at the thought? You meaningless cog, you! > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
