Hi Ham, Thanks for your educational post. I will do my best to respond intelligently.
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Ham Priday <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Mark -- > > On Tues, Apr 19, 2011, at 2:06 AM, "118" <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Free will can be considered a personal choice, although there are >> those who claim we have been determined to believe in free will. >> On the other hand we are free to choose determinism. The latter >> is like electing a ruler who changes the constitution so that he never >> leaves power, the other is more like an ever changing democracy, >> so long as one side does not take complete control. >> >> Me, I choose free will. > > To be "predetermined to believe" in something makes no sense to me, and I'm > amazed at how many MDers resist the idea of man as a free agent. There can > be only two reasons for this, in my opinion: 1) they are persuaded that the > 'self' is some form of being, hence must be controlled by the deterministic > laws of the physical universe, and 2) they refuse to accept the principle of > an uncreated source in the belief that it is a throwback to theism which is > "anti-intellectual". [Mark] I have noticed a tendency to classify the variety of avatars into certain buckets. This is typically done for rhetorical purposes. The problem with this for me is it colors the manner in which you read my posts. As such, I try to write things such that you can best interpret my awareness in a way that I see it. From our numerous previous conversations, you know that I do not resist the idea of man as a free agent. I simply make such a concept more universal than you do. Since opinion number one is for a future date, I will simply point out that the logic you present does not stand. So, more on this later. > > I shall address the first reason in detail at a later time. As for the > second, I should like to quote from an essay I just stumbled upon while > researching Free Will and Determinism. The essay appeared in a 1993 issue > of the American Philosophical Quarterly under the title 'Hiddenness'. In it > Profs. Michael Murray and David E. Taylor of Franklin and Marshall College > argue (brilliantly I think) for the "moral necessity" that God be hidden > from the world. (Should the word 'God' offend anyone, I suggest that the > term "Primary Source", "Essence", or "DQ" be mentally substituted for it by > the reader.) > [Quoted text SNIPPED]> > The complete essay can be downloaded in pdf format at > https://edisk.fandm.edu/michael.murray/MURRAY_TAYLOR%20HIDDENNESS.pdf [Mark] Well, you don't give me much to respond to, since I do not know what you get from your quoted text. I have certainly read this form of analysis performed by other writers, from the fictitious novella to the more erudite scientific presentation. I have, for the most part, stayed out of the free will dilemma, except perhaps where Quality may shed some light on the subject. Back when I was interested in this type of subject, I saw it as a Taoist incarnation of Yin and Yang where free will was on one side and determinism on the other. The struggle between these two views provides us with our reality (if we care about such things). Indeed, so many philosophers have written on this. I liked Kant's presentation in his third antimony, I also was drawn to Hume's position on this. But, there are so many of them. Let me say this: If free will or determinism could be indeed determined (pun intended) then it is much easier to prove free will as opposed to determinism. All it takes is one single awareness of a case of free-will to destroy the concept of determinism. On the other hand, no amount of cases of determinism will ever prove it is true, since there can always be that case the provides the exception. It is like stating that all swans are white. This is not provable since the possibility of a black swan is always there. Let me know if you have an opinion (other than it was brilliant) on the quoted texts. Cheers, Mark > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
