Hi Arlo, so many things in there I didn't say ... And I know already, eg: "But social patterns are NOT biological patterns, and cannot be reduced to biological patterns." Basic stuff, agreed.
But basically, I still don't agree with the rest ... the example evidence is I believe being misinterpreted ... ironically, in too reductionist a way. No time to elaborate today .... but at least we have it in a separate thread now. Ian On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Arlo Bensinger <[email protected]> wrote: > [Ian] > In the same way as biological patterns can be fossilized in the physical. > Social (and intellectual) patterns can be "fossilized" in the biological. > > [Arlo] > I have no doubt that intellectual activity shapes the trajectory of social > evolution, and social activity shapes the trajectory of biological > evolution, and that biological activity shapes the trajectory of inorganic > evolution, in similar form the foundations shaping the trajectory of > subsequent emergent levels. > > But social patterns are NOT biological patterns, and cannot be reduced to > biological patterns. You can encode, say, an intellectual pattern in the > inorganic electrical signals of a computer, but that computer will not > spontaneously write a book. For the encoding to have meaning, it takes (in > addition to the encoder) and decoder capable of understanding and > interacting with patterns on that level. > > While the data is slim (who wants to apply for an IRB release to drop a > newborn child onto a deserted island?), the data we do have categorically > denies your position, the "feral children" we have witnessed (who even WERE > socialized for several years) exhibited no greater behavior or agency than a > wild animal. Helen Keller described her pre-language time as a wave that > never grounded, she had no thoughts, no social behavior, and was until the > point she, through the shared attention with another human, learned "water", > she was an animal. She had no spontaneous language or intellect that emerged > in her head because of some biological fossilization. > > And to say that a socialized adult is dropped onto a deserted island > demonstrates that we don't need others to form social or intellectual > patterns is inane, of course we have the capacity for memory. But even the > little data we have on adults being kept in isolation indicates that there > is a rapid loss of social and intellectual capacity when the social and > intellectual surround is removed. > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
