Marsha,
That's true of all of us and all we say and we all know it.

It takes a conscious rhetorical choice to choose to say it in words in
a communication.

Ian

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:57 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Ian,
>
> On Sep 1, 2011, at 7:33 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>
>> You can see Marsha I'm sure, that slipping in ...
>> "but then it is ONLY [dmb's] opinion"
>> ... is your part of perpetuating the warring you refer to?
>
>
> I don't see it that way because it is _only my opinion_.  I do not
> hold the Ultimate truth.
>
> Marsha
>
>
>>
>> With respect to the Ant quotations, there is an element of exposing -
>> on the one hand / on the other hand - counter arguments in a thesis /
>> dissertation, so we might not read strong agreement by Ant into his
>> statement of the view of Pirsig's deficiencies ? (Ant can speak for
>> himself on that. Matt has already pointed out tactical rhetorical
>> reasons why Pirsig might not have wanted to emphasise that aspect in
>> his writing at the time.)
>>
>> dmb's view there was interesting - I happen to believe there was
>> something of a straw-man in this passage
>> "Various posters have come through here, usually religious types, who
>> insist that their philosophical positions shouldn't be judged on their
>> intellectual merits, as if it's cruel to hold them to such standards,
>> as if their position deserves respect simply because that position is
>> held by a person and people deserve respect. This silly, self-centered
>> attitude says, in effect, that being critical of another's position is
>> more or less the same as being a dick."
>> But it is interesting that dmb states HIS attitude clearly.
>>
>> (Straw-man - because it really just side-steps a debate of what is
>> "intellectual merit" - no-one would claim to be unreasonable, not even
>> the overtly religious types. It's an open debate as to who's style of
>> debate is the more mature and constructive - Matt's point - and mine.)
>> Ian
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:42 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> From Anthony's Ph.D. thesis:
>>>
>>>   "On the other hand, Pirsig's system remains a 'broad brush' as two (or 
>>> more) judgements concerned with a particular moral dilemma can rely on 
>>> criteria derived from the same evolutionary level.  Moreover, there _is_ 
>>> considerable detail that Pirsig has overlooked from both Eastern and 
>>> Western philosophical traditions, through this can be provided, to some 
>>> extent, by researching the philosophers (such as Northrop, Nagarjuna and 
>>> William James) who influenced his work.  No doubt, in-depth comparisons 
>>> between Pirsig and these philosophers would be beneficial in further 
>>> clarifying the MoQ.  Other issues overlooked by Pirsig are the Taoist 
>>> quietist concern with the environment; discrimination on the grounds of 
>>> race, gender culture and disability; the damage caused by global capitalism 
>>> and the Buddhis emphasis on compassion.
>>>
>>>   "Pirsig's failure to explicitly mention Buddhist compassion (karuna) in 
>>> ZMM or LILA is possibly his most serious oversight.  Compassion is defined 
>>> by Rahula (1959, p.46) as representing universal... 'love, charity, 
>>> kindness, tolerance, and such noble qualities on the emotional side' 
>>> qualified by the following advice:
>>>
>>>        If one develops only the emotional neglecting the intellectual, one 
>>> may become a
>>>        good-hearted fool; while to develop only the intellectual side 
>>> neglecting the
>>>        emotional may turn one into a hard-hearted intellect without feeling 
>>> for others.
>>>        Therefore, to be perfect one has to develop both equally. That is 
>>> the aim of the
>>>        Buddhist way of life: in it wisdom and compassion are inseparably 
>>> linked together.
>>>        (Rahula, 1959, p.46)
>>>
>>>   "As numerous world problems are caused or aggravated due to lack of 
>>> genuine compassion, it appears highly plausible that an increased 
>>> consideration of the later would enhance the MoQ.
>>>
>>>        According to the _Buddha-dharma_... all the pain we bring to 
>>> ourselves and others
>>>        --- the hatred, the warring, the grovelling, the manipulation --- is 
>>> our own doing.  It
>>>        comes from our own hearts and minds, out of our own confusion.  
>>> Furthermore, if we
>>>        don't see exactly what the problem is, we're going to perpetuate it. 
>>>  We're going to
>>>        teach our children our confusion, and we'll go on, generation after 
>>> generation, doing
>>>        more of the same to ourselves and to each other. (Hagen, 1997, p.16)
>>>
>>>
>>>     (McWatt, Anthony, 'A Critical Analysis of Robert Pirsig's Metaphysics 
>>> of Quality', pp. 214-215)
>>>
>>> Marsha:
>>> I agree with Anthony when he states "Pirsig's failure to explicitly mention 
>>> Buddhist compassion (karuna) in ZMM or LILA is possibly his most serious 
>>> oversight."; and so think it is a very valid topic.  Dmb's opinion is quite 
>>> interesting, but then it is only his opinion.  imho
>>>
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>
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