Hello everyone On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:31 PM, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hey Matt: > > I forget who said it and where I heard it, but there is at least one writer > who says that writers write for an ideal reader. This ideal reader that > doesn't really exist but writers write for him all the same. This ideal > reader is one that understands all of your references and sees the point of > all your pointed jokes. He is able to discern your tone and your connotations > as well as the explicit meaning of what you say. In short this ideal reader > can see what you have in mind, but he's not mind reader. He can only > understand what you think IF you put it on the page, of course.
Dan: I don't know, Dave. I tend to disagree with that, although other writers might well agree. I write on account of a feeling that I have to write. There are times when I sincerely wish I could be like other people that I know who spend their lives watching television and laughing and talking with one another about the shows they watch. I wish I could accept invitations to go out drinking and carousing and raising all sorts of hell smoking dope and eating mushrooms and waking in the mornings with hangovers and strange women in the sack next to me. I envy those who seem to fit in so easily with others while I have a hard time even knowing what to say most of the time. I have to write. And I know I cannot write well if I am drunk and stoned. So I don't get drunk or stoned. Period. And I know from experience that when I go to gatherings I sit alone most of the time thinking of better ways to tell my story. I don't want to sit there thinking of ways to tell my story but I can't help it. That's what I do. I don't give two good dams for the reader, much less an ideal reader. When I'm writing... I mean really in the groove... time means nothing. I don't eat. I don't sleep. If the phone rings I ignore it. If someone knocks at the door I just let them knock until they either open it up or go away. If they open it I know it's someone I want to see. If they go away I know it's not. The reader means nothing to me. Nothing. It is the story that drives me. >dmb: > I think that's a very interesting idea and it probably goes both ways. The > idea is about the writer imagining his ideal audience but it's also about > being a really good reader. With some effort, one could almost become an > ideal reader like this. If you learn as much as you can about the author and > his interpreters and then read that author's work carefully and repeatedly, > you could get pretty close to this ideal. You can decide to make yourself > worthy. Dan: As a writer I read differently than a reader. What I mean to say is, I look beyond the words at the underlying construction of the story and the use (and misuse) of the language. I ponder plot and theme development and the timing of the introduction of characters. I look at dialogue and how it moves (or doesn't move) the story along. I sense when the author has researched the story and when they haven't. One misplaced reference can ruin the whole experience of reading a story and I have to put it down never to pick it up again. I look more for what not to do as a writer than at what to do. But every once in a while I find something that works so I take it and make it my own. >dmb: > I like the idea for the way it flatters the reader too. It says, in effect, > "you are smart enough to understand everything I say." It says, "I trust you > and respect your intelligence." It says, "there is no reason to think that i > have to spoon-feed these ideas to you or otherwise condescend." It says to > the reader, "I can talk to you because you're well informed and the sky is > blue in your world too." This ideal reader is neither baffled nor bored by > your level of discourse. That's who you're writing for. Seems to me that this > would apply to just about any kind of writer. It works if you're an amateur > philosopher, a dramatist, or a stand-up comedian. Dan: Yes I can see how it could work. And truth be told I'd like to be able to imagine the reader reading my story. But I cannot. Some readers will be bored with my writings. Some will be baffled. A few might find some value there. But that is not why I write. And if I did write to please the reader (ideal or otherwise) I am quite sure my writings wouldn't be from the heart. They would be contrived. My words wouldn't be my own. They would belong to someone else... someone I was trying to imitate... someone I was trying to please. > >dmb: > Took my wife to see some comedy a few weeks ago. We sat in the center of the > first row, which means you're likely to become part of the show even if you > don't want to be. I'm a huge fan but there was a couple sitting right next to > us that had never even heard of the comedian (Marc Maron). Maron knew this > just by looking at us and he had great fun showing off his ability to read > his audience. He says to me, "You know me, right? You get me, right?" "Oh, > yea. A know you a little too well," I said. Then he said to the guy sitting > next to me, "But I can tell by your haircut that you and I have absolutely > nothing in common and you came here tonight having no fucking idea who I am, > am I right?" The guy nodded yes. Maron then went on to make all kinds of > guesses about the guy and all his guesses were bull's eyes. > > > Writers rarely enjoy this kind of instant feedback and so they can never > become that skilled at reading their audience, but I think the principle is > the same. Some people just aren't going to get you no matter how smart they > are. There is the issue of temperament too, and this has very big > consequences in terms of whose going to find you appealing, interesting or > even entertaining. Maron freely admits that his comedy isn't for everyone. In > fact, he has very little respect for the "broad" comedians who try to appeal > to everyone. In fact, he hates that kind of mediocre bullshit. He thinks that > comedians are in the truth-telling business and doing it right means doing it > your own way. The "truth" has to come out of your own life, your own > experience and feelings. In other words, nothing excellent can be produced > through imitation or by trying to fulfill somebody else's idea of what a > comedian should be. You're not really a comedian, he says, until you find > your own voice. If you > speak with your own voice and your audience still understands all your > references and all your pointed jokes, you've won. Take a victory lap and > call your mother. Dan: The man is wise. But I'm pretty sure my mother wouldn't be pleased reading most of my stories. And, as much as I'd like to think I've won, the race is never over. It goes on and on. Thank you, Dan Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
