On Sat, 9/14/11 at 8:08 AM, "Horse" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Guys
I think Dan has said much of what I think with respect to Ham's
comments and his attitude towards the so-called renegades - who
aren't actually renegades, just folks who fail to understand Pirsig!
But I thought I should comment on this little piece.
There's a big difference between "understanding" and "acceptance", Horse.
I've noticed that the charge of "failing to understand Pirsig" is applied to
practically anyone who questions the logic of an MoQ premise. And what can
you know of my "attitude toward the so-called renegades"? For that matter,
doesn't Pirsig consider himself a renegade?
I am neither a revolutionist nor a protester. My purpose here is simply to
shed new light on Value realization which is the core element of Pirsig's
philosophy. That it also happens to be fundamental to Essentialism is
incidental to you guys, although I probably wouldn't be here if it were not.
It's possible that there is no place for what I call 'value-sensibility' in
a philosophy that rejects the subjective self. It's also conceivable that
Quality is the only free agent in the universe. But aren't such ideas
worthy of at least some evaluation in terms of traditional ontologies?
According to Dan, 'Prisig says' is the only game in town. "This forum is
dedicated to Pirsig says," says Dan. If that's true, then why is DMB
playing "William James says"? Why is Marsha quoting whole passages from
Albahari's analysis of Nagarjuna? Obviously they see some relevance in
these quotes to Pirsig's ideas, in the same way that I see the relevance of
Essence Value. As I view it, confronting challenges by other philosophers
can only promote healthy development of the MoQ.
Since I don't know all the details, I won't rehash the alleged offences of
those who are no longer with us. I'm more concerned about my own
culpability when a statement I post "pisses someone off". But you make the
rules, Horse; and as far as I'm aware, I haven't broken any.
And as Dan said, why don't all you renegades (OMG!!) get your own forum
and start making your noises there. I'll give you a big fat link from my
site and this forum if you do that.
See how generous I am? But please don't make the mistake of
seeing that generosity as either stupidity or weakness.
I appreciate the offer, Horse, but I already run The Essentialist's Forum,
which is quite enough for me right now (unless you should want to link to
that).
Respectfully yours,
Ham
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
On 23/09/2011 21:04, Ham Priday wrote:
By way of history, Bodvar was excommunicated for expounding
an original theory of Intellect which didn't comport with the official
Quality hierarchy.
By way of correcting Ham who is re-writing history to suit his own
twisted purpose, this is the sort of crap that seems to come from that
jolly band of 'renegades' who see themselves as the holy Pirsig martyrs.
If, Ham, you had bothered to read a single post of what went on with Bo
you'd have realised that I let Bo continue with his fucked up pile of
crap for about 10 years (yes years Ham - if you are actually bothering
to read this) and only called a halt on it after months of trying to
stop Bo pissing all over this forum by interrupting every conversation
and refusing to listen to a word I said. I made a huge effort to try and
make Bo behave reasonably (because I like him) but in the end he
couldn't or wouldn't and left. As for his thesis being original - don't
make me laugh. It was a fucked up re-hash of Pirsigs MoQ and Bo was
trying to take credit for it by telling everyone he could that Pirsig
was too fucking stupid to understand his own ideas and Bo was really the
owner and originator of the TRUE MoQ.
Tim (with whom I've had some offline contact) was also regarded
as too controversial for this dedicated forum,
More bullshit. Tim was a nut-case (one of the few that we've had) and he
wouldn't behave reasonably so I removed him. If by controversial you
mean a raving religious foil-hat wearing fucking idiot then yeah he was
controversial.
and I understand that Platt was disenchanted (probably with the prevailing
collectivist sentiment of this group) and left on his own accord.
Oh dear - having to fall back on the veiled insults is such a poor show
Ham. Collectivist sentiment my arse. And for your information, Platt
hasn't left the group. He just doesn't post any more. His accounts are
still open and mail is being delivered but whether he reads it or not I
don't know.
If Platt feels that the rules of this forum and my, generally,
reasonable requests are too much of an infringement on his freedom of
expression then he can go to another Pirsig forum and see how much
sympathy he gets there. I would suspect though that only if he (and/or
Bo) start their own forum will he/they be able to continue with their
nonsense in their own way as no one else will put up with it for a
minute. I put up with it for years.
I've tried to avoid politics in my posts, focusing mainly on metaphysical
issues that to my way of thinking are, or should be, central to Pirsig's
philosophy. Unfortunately, my concepts seem to have been rejected out of
hand by all but a few "adventurous" participants.
Or those that generally haven't got a clue about Pirsig as they are more
generally known! And as Dan said, why don't all you renegades (OMG!!)
get your own forum and start making your noises there. I'll give you a
big fat link from my site and this forum if you do that.
See how generous I am? But please don't make the mistake of seeing that
generosity as either stupidity or weakness.
Horse
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