Hi Mark --
My intention in the last post was towards harmonization of concepts.
The analogies may be weak at present, but they are just doorways.
Often I find the term dynamic to be misleading since it gives the
sense of promulgating change. However, as a foil to static it works
to a degree. Dynamic Quality can be seen as both a backdrop to the
world of "appearance", as well as a cause (if we use the cause-effect
paradigm). Of importance, IMO, is the interplay between the two,
since the relationship is not simply directional or one-way. That is,
the static can cause the dynamic as well.
For me, the concept of Quality represents the sum total analogy.
It is then metaphysically divided up for discussion and advancement.
Your debating is part of the process, otherwise this would be a history
forum. I enjoy jousting with you.
Likewise. By the way, you never answered the question I asked back on 9/29:
In your opinion, is the MoQ a deterministic philosophy?
Your answer will help me size up your philosophical position.
Thanks, Mark,
Ham
Mark
On Oct 9, 2011, at 12:03 AM, "Ham Priday" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hey, Mark --
First of all, thank you Ham, you are more eloquent than I.
I appreciate the compliment, Mark. But if I am more eloquent, why do the
ideas you articulate get more response than mine? (On second thought,
don't bother; it's because that devil Ham is misconstruing the MoQ to
promote his own philosophy.)
The way in which Marsha uses static/dynamic is indeed prone to
confusion. How about this analogy. The great ocean is deep. On its
surface, there are waves which appear and then disappear. Our life
here is brief, just another wave, but what is causing our waves lasts
forever and is an integral part of us. So in this case, the dynamic
represents potential (which is similar to your Essence), and our
existence is the representation of such potential (your negation).
With an understanding of Quality one can make inroads into a more
meaningful existence. In fact, it can change one's whole daily
behavior and attitude (gumption if you will). Does your belief in
your metaphysics impact every moment of your daily life?
Yes, I think belief in a transcendent Essence makes my life more
meaningful when it comes to understanding the purpose of human existence
in terms of man's need for spiritual fulfillment.
You have posed the ocean/waves analogy before, and it would be a good
metaphor for Ultimate Reality/Existence. Unfortunately, since the "great
ocean" is static relative to the dynamic "surface waves", it would
reverse Pirsig's paradigm which makes reality "Dynamic Quality" and its
ever-changing patterns "static".
Or, how about this, a book is static, the story it tells is dynamic.
There is a relationship between the static and the dynamic, and both
interact like the Yin and the Yang. Quality is the Circle which
encompasses, Value is the interface between the static and the
dynamic. (don't know if this works quite right, but I will leave it
in for discussion). And let's not forget the soul, which is the white
paper upon which the words of the book are written. Life plays on
one's soul like music fills silence.
Again, Mark, I see the "book" as an analog for the immutable Source, and
the unfolding "story it tells" as dynamic existence. Also, I see no
difference between the "circle" of Quality and the "interface" of Value.
(Didn't Pirsig equate the two?) So your analogies are still problematic
for me.
Yes, personal value is relative to the person. However, what is
creating that value, exists beyond the person. You have a formula of
double negation, I simply call it Quality.
What is creating the value is the relation of the sensible agent (person)
to the whole (Essence). I describe Value as "the affinity of the self
for its estranged Essence". Negation works the other way; it divides the
cognizant agent from the essential Source to create difference, thus
making possible the autonomous realization of a range of finite values.
Thanks for the analogies, Mark, even though they appear to be more useful
for my ontology than RMP's.
Best,
Ham
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