Jesus christ it's like "who's on first?"
From: Dan Glover <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:57 AM Subject: Re: [MD] The Hero's journey Hello everyone On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Matt Kundert <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hey Dan, > > Dan said: > The idea that the city of New York exists is a high quality idea. I have > no reason to suspect that New York City doesn't exist even though > I've never personally been there to experience it directly. But I do > have reason to suspect Don's dog dish doesn't exist, just as I suspect > the tree falling in the forest doesn't exist. They're imaginary. Now, I > might imagine what New York City is like, but until I visit I'll never > know. But imagining something that I know exists and imagining that > which doesn't exist are on different ends of the spectrum of > intellectual quality patterns. Is that really so weird? > > Matt: > Oh my god: I think I just figured out what's been blocking the > conversation. Dan: I wasn't aware the conversation was blocked... Matt: > You've been taking "Don's dog dish" as an made-up, > fictional account--is that right? And _that's_ why "what dish" makes > sense? Dan: Isn't that what imaginary points to? That is what a hypothesis contrary to fact means... there isn't sufficient evidence to back up the claim that Don's dog dish exists or doesn't exist when Don walks out of the room. >Matt: > What if I told you that was an actual conversation that happened > once to my friends Don and Chris? Would that make it more like > New York? You wouldn't believe me, and on good grounds, but the > purpose of thought-experiments isn't to call their bluff immediately by > going "imaginary fiction! you're making that up!" It's supposed to be > to assume for the sake of argument that this is a real situation that > can happen to generate real-world responses to then discuss the > conceptual viability of. Dan: You may be correct in assuming imaginary dog dishes exist but when there's no evidence available to support that assumption then I have to be a little skeptical. And no... you telling me that this was an actual conversation doesn't make imaginary dog dishes any more like New York City. It only tells me that you and Don and Chris have presupposed a fallacy and then discussed the viability of it... it would be like me and John and Marsha presupposing elephants can dance and then discussing whether or not they do the tango. These are low quality intellectual patterns that point to the confusion that arises when we take for granted imaginary things like trees falling in forests when no one is around. New York City is part of our social and intellectual cultural... it is on maps... I can Google it... the evidence for the claim of the existence of New York City is overwhelming... so much so that there is no doubt in my mind that it exists. New York City existing apart from my experience of it is a high quality idea arising from the collection of social and intellectual patterns making up my being. In a value-centered reality high quality ideas inform us better than do low quality ideas. What you and Chris and Don may want to discuss is: Did New York City exist before we were aware of its existence... and will it exist when we are dead and gone? And how does that pertain to RMP's discussion of the existence of gravity in ZMM? >Matt: > If this hasn't been the block, then I have no idea why you have more > reason to think that New York is a higher quality idea than Don's dog > dish. Dan: I hope I've answered that... there is more evidence... and in a value-centered reality ideas supported by evidence are of higher quality than are presuppositions lacking evidence. Thank you, Dan Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
