Hi Marsha, Sent laboriously from an iPhone, Mark
On Dec 1, 2011, at 10:52 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > Greetings Mark, > > Sent from my iPad > >>>>> >>>>>> Mark: >>>>>> What I was trying to say about quantum mechanics is that it is a >>>>>> mathematical description of matter. The notion that matter is >>>>>> non-local arises from how the math is used. Therefore non-locality is >>>>>> not a result of matter actually being non-local, it is a result of the >>>>>> math used to describe it. The problem with physicists (imo) is that >>>>>> they think that the math equations actually ARE matter. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha: >>>>> Patterns are ever-changing, conditionally codependent, impermanent and >>>>> conceptually constructed, whether intellectual, social, biological or >>>>> inorganic. Within the quantum world, there is the measurement problem. >>>>> And hope for interconnectedness. >>>> >>>> [Mark] >>>> As you know, I have a problem with "patterns" since it seem to rigid >>>> for me. In my opinion, patterns arise after conceptualization. This >>>> would draw a line between DQ and conceptualization, which I do not >>>> believe is quite accurate. But, that is just me. >>>> >>> >>> Marsha: >>> Here is my understanding of patterns. Please note, though I state >>> that all patterns are conceptualized, that does not mean that patterns >>> are conceptual (all concepts). For I do not. Patterns may very well, >>> at the very least, have a perceptual piece. Here it is again: >>> >>> I think it best to consider static patterns of value from two different >>> points of view. One would be the nature of all patterns: conditionally >>> co-dependent, impermanent, ever-changing and conceptualized. >>> A second would be by categorization by evolutionary function - >>> inorganic, biological, social and intellectual – into their four-level, >>> hierarchical structure. >>> >> >> >> Mark: >> Yes, I think I see what you are presenting. I would use a systems >> approach rather than a pattern approach to convey what I believe you >> are saying. A system is dynamic, a pattern seems more static to me. >> >> Personally, I approach MoQ more from the inside looking out, than the >> outside looking in. That is, I do not see myself as a pattern, >> although I can create them. We are not actually devided up into four >> levels, nor do we need to abide by conditionality. Again, all just my >> opinion. >> >> Cheers, Mark > > It is very much a system, or process, when it is understood that static > quality exists in stable patterns relative to other patterns. Patterns > depend upon innumerable causes and conditions (patterns), depend upon parts > and the collection of parts (patterns), depend upon conceptual designation > (patterns). !Patterns have no independent existence! Further, these patterns > represent "what works" depending upon on an individual's static pattern of > life history. Gotcha > > I know that you know that there is no inside/outside dichotomy. The > fundamental nature of static quality is Dynamic Quality. Well, here we get into an awareness of Reality as it presents itself to us. I consider a conceptual framework to be part of reality. So I would say that the dichotomy is real since we create it. Else wise we are stuck in a system not of our own doing. What we create conceptually is as real as what causes us to create it. It is a continuum, if you will. We cannot separate our musings from everything else. To do so gives us more power than I think we have. Our thought process is DQ in action, IMO. Indeed the split between DQ and sq is a dichotomy. As an analogy, possibly DQ is that from within, and sq is that from outside. I will have to think about this a bit to see how the rhetoric works. > > Contemplating "patterns" is very interesting. To follow them can lead to > quite a realization. Imho Yes, I can see from your posts that it is indeed useful. Mark > > > Marsha > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
