Hello Marsha, On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 10:52 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > Greetings Mark, > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:51 AM, 118 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Mark: >> What I was trying to say about quantum mechanics is that it is a >> mathematical description of matter. The notion that matter is >> non-local arises from how the math is used. Therefore non-locality is >> not a result of matter actually being non-local, it is a result of the >> math used to describe it. The problem with physicists (imo) is that >> they think that the math equations actually ARE matter. > > Marsha: > Patterns are ever-changing, conditionally codependent, impermanent and > conceptually constructed, whether intellectual, social, biological or > inorganic. Within the quantum world, there is the measurement problem. And > hope for interconnectedness.
[Mark] As you know, I have a problem with "patterns" since it seem to rigid for me. In my opinion, patterns arise after conceptualization. This would draw a line between DQ and conceptualization, which I do not believe is quite accurate. But, that is just me. > > >> Mark: >> If it helps someone to conceive of the world as not having >> inherent existence, then such a person should use this concept to see >> where it takes them. As such, the notion of no inherent existence is >> a tool, not a reality. > > Marsha: > Emptiness, too, is empty of inherent existence. [Mark] Yes, I know the argument. > > >> Mark: >> This may be what you are speaking of concerning the functionality of >> truth. Some people prefer not to really exist, other people love >> really existing. The problem with the ego is that it tends to see >> itself relative to someone else, not as something in the process of >> becoming. People are unhappy if they see someone with more stuff >> than they. This is why Buddha tries to convince those seriously >> afflicted with this malady that the self does not exist. It is to let >> them feel free from what they see as relative existence. > > Marsha: > I exist as a flow of ever-changing, conditionally codependent, impermanent > and conceptually constructed patterns within a field of Dynamic Quality. If > you want to name that 'self' go ahead, but I find that label confusing > because of the 'independent, inherently existing' connotations associated > with the term. Yes, the concept of "self" cannot be found. Since we create the concept, it is trying to find something which we created as something more than that. The result is emptiness, literally. I prefer to act as Self, since this brings responsibility. The Buddha felt that HE was responsible to all sentient beings. Without self, it seems to me that it all becomes deterministic. But that is just my interpretation. > > Your interpreting on behalf of the Buddha is a joke, right? [Mark] No, dead serious, and as you know we all have the potential to be Buddhas. So perhaps it is a misguided interpretation of myself in-becoming, although I like to think not. I do know that Buddha did not like dogma, he was more into rhetoric, this is why he did not write things down. He was very much against the ego (as we call it these days), and did what he could to balance it in individuals. By this logic, his sayings were tools and not end products, for to become a slave of dogma is not Buddhism in my opinion. The end product was Nirvana, and, in the end, it really does not matter how one gets there. While I find Buddhism compelling, I prefer Zen, which is much more Taoism. It seems to me that your patterns are more Taoist than strict Buddhist. MoQ has more of a Zen feel, what do you think? > Cheers, Mark > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
