Hi Marsha, Yes, they are both presentations of Quality. For the purposes of metaphysical presentation they are separated as DQ and sq. this is what MoQ is, and this is what this forum is about. If you choose not to discuss MoQ, that is fine, but it does not help to short-circuit the metaphysics which Pirsig presents. If you find no value in discussing DQ and sq as different, then what kind of structure do you use for MoQ? It would seem that you are not interested in MoQ. So, my question is: Do you think that the distinction between DQ and sq is a useful presentation for discussion? If not, I will not bother you with it.
Thanks Sent laboriously from an iPhone, Mark On Dec 16, 2011, at 7:40 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mark, > > For me, static quality is not other than Dynamic Quality. But, of course, > that is based as much on experience as what I've read & how I've understood > and integrated that understanding. There were no questions within your post > so thanks for responding. > > > Marsha > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 16, 2011, at 5:07 PM, 118 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Marsha, >> I am glad that it has been established for you. Personally I do not >> see Quality as being the same thing as Emptiness, but, of course, we >> each have our own realities. DQ is a subset of Quality and is created >> for the purposes of presentation. In this sense DQ is not the same as >> Quality, and both cannot be considered Emptiness in the same way. I >> suppose from this Pirsigian metaphysical division of DQ and sq, DQ >> would be one form of Emptiness according to you and Anthony. Since >> Quality can never be defined and can only be represented, each >> representation may be different. I suppose the usefulness comes in as >> to what this vision does for one. >> >> The term Emptiness also has different connotations to each person and >> can never be presented as dogmatic. Not having inherent existence is >> one of a number of possible presentations. It is interesting that in >> your quote the author states that Emptiness is "beyond the common >> worldly understanding", which implies it lies within an "uncommon >> worldly understanding". Perhaps that is what I have. >> >> Thank you for your response, I am still learning what people "see" in >> terms of Quality. >> >> Mark >> >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 10:06 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> HI Mark, >>> >>> Yes, in my opinion, Quality, or DQ, corresponds to Buddhism's Sunyata, or >>> Emptiness. The relationship has already been established. I am quite sure >>> that that Anthony, in both his PhD thesis and the MoQ Textbook, has >>> suggested that it is also RMP's understanding that the two are synonymous. >>> > >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Dec 16, 2011, at 12:41 PM, 118 <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Marsha, >>>> In your opinion, is this DQ or Quality, or something else? In other >>>> words, how do you relate this to MoQ? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Sent laboriously from an iPhone, >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> On Dec 16, 2011, at 5:53 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sunyata (Emptiness) in the Mahayana Context >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 1. Sunyata (Emptiness) is the profound meaning of the Mahayana Teaching. >>>>> >>>>> Two thousand five hundred years ago, the Buddha was able to realise >>>>> "emptiness" (s. sunyata). By doing so he freed himself from >>>>> unsatisfactoriness (s. dukkha). From the standpoint of enlightenment, >>>>> sunyata is the reality of all worldly existences (s. dharma). It is the >>>>> realisation of Bodhi — Prajna. From the standpoint of liberation, sunyata >>>>> is the skilful means that disentangle oneself from defilement and >>>>> unsatisfactoriness. The realisation of sunyata leads one to no attachment >>>>> and clinging. It is the skilful means towards enlightenment and also the >>>>> fruit of enlightenment. >>>>> >>>>> There are two ways for us to understand this concept of sunyata in the >>>>> Mahayana context. One way is to try to understand the explanation about >>>>> its true nature. The other way is the realisation through practice. What >>>>> we are going to discuss now is about its true nature. >>>>> >>>>> Mahayana teachings have always considered that the understanding of >>>>> sunyata is an attainment which is extremely difficult and extraordinarily >>>>> profound. >>>>> >>>>> For example, in the Prajna Sutra it says "That which is profound, has >>>>> sunyata and non-attachment as its significance. No form nor deeds, no >>>>> rising nor falling, are its implications." >>>>> >>>>> Again in the Dvadasanikaya Sastra (composed by Nagarjuna, translated to >>>>> Chinese by Kumarajiva A.D. 408) it says: "The greatest wisdom is the >>>>> so-called sunyata." >>>>> >>>>> This sunyata, no creation, calmness and extinction (s. nirvana) is of a >>>>> profound significance in the Mahayana teachings. Why do we see it as the >>>>> most profound teaching? This is because there is no worldly knowledge, be >>>>> it general studies, science or philosophy, that can lead to the >>>>> attainment of the state of sunyata. The only path to its realisation is >>>>> via the supreme wisdom of an impassionate and discriminating mind. It is >>>>> beyond the common worldly understanding. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.buddhanet.net/cbp2_f6.htm. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
