Marsha said:
The term 'truth' has a long history and a deep association with the search for
certainty.. Clinging to the term 'truth' with its deeply embedded existing
denotations and connotations doesn't move toward a new quality orientation.
Using 'patterns' clearly cuts the ties to the old understanding. It's fresh,
it's new, it's a better representation.
David Harding replied:
So this is your explanation as to why 'truth' has issues. It has 'deeply
embedded existing denotations and connotations' and has a history with the
search for certainty. ....Everyone knows what truth is. It is just that our
intellectual understanding of the best place for it within metaphysics for the
last 2500 years has been wrong. If, using the MOQ, we get a better
understanding of truth, then that is valuable, not just for truth into the
future, but for everything ever written about truth. We can take those truths
from the past which are valuable and discard those which are not. ...
dmb says:
Marsha rejects the term "truth" because she prefers "patterns". This is absurd
for one simple reason; THE MOQ DEFINES TRUTH AS PATTERNS. In effect, her stance
rejects the MOQ's truth because she prefers the MOQ's truth. Clearly, the woman
is confused.
To put it in a nutshell, Marsha's incoherent stance on truth is a result of
confusing the problem with Pirsig's solution to that problem. He ditches
Platonic Truth and Objective Truth and replaces it with a pragmatic truth but
Marsha ham-handedly ditches the replacement too. She treats the solution as if
it were identical to the problem and so refuses to use the word "truth" and
declares no interest in the concept even when talking about it here, in the
context of the MOQ. Apparently, Marsha cannot discern the difference between
the MOQ's theory of truth and Plato's fixed and eternal Truth or the Objective
Truth of SOM. And so she simply rejects the word truth altogether, rejects the
notion of truth altogether.
Please notice how Marsha's stance is quite nonsensical even on the most basic
level. Her mistakes are so fundamental that they in the same neighborhood as
grammatical errors and the misuse of terms. She keeps saying that she prefers
the term "patterns" over the term "truth". But - as I keep saying - the MOQ
defines "truth" as "patterns".
"That was exactly what is meant by the Metaphysics of Quality. Truth is a
static intellectual pattern within a larger entity called Quality."
The MOQ's pragmatic truth is defined as static intellectual patterns, but
Marsha prefers static patterns instead of truth?
The are good reasons to reject the old conceptions of truth and adopt the
pragmatic theory of truth instead. But Marsha is confused in such a way that
she mistakenly uses those good reasons to reject the MOQ's improved conception
of truth. She uses Pirsig's attack against Pirsig. She uses the MOQ to
undermine the MOQ. It's hackery of the worst kind wherein the repairs cannot be
discerned from the damage. It's worse than useless. It creates a mess, confuses
and conflates the core concepts and, to the extent that other people are
confused or misled, Marsha's contributions are destructive.
The problem, Pirsig says, is that "Reason and Quality had become separated and
in conflict with each other" back in the days of Plato. Plato had made Quality
subordinate to reason, to truth. The MOQ's solution is to reverse that
priority.
"Reason was to be subordinate, logically, to Quality."
That's how Pirsig puts it in ZAMM but then you see this same solution in Lila.
The MOQ's pragmatic truth maintains that reversed priority so that truth is
within Quality and subordinate to Quality.
"That was exactly what is meant by the Metaphysics of Quality. Truth is a
static intellectual pattern within a larger entity called Quality."
To say that truth is within a larger entity called Quality is to say that truth
is subordinate to Quality. In the MOQ, all of our concepts, truths, and
definitions have a relationship to this larger "entity" called Quality, to the
primary empirical reality, but it is a subordinate relationship.
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