Ant,

Thanks for your opinion.  Also, I read somewhere that Buddha not only was a 
symbol for a man, but also a symbol for the teaching.  And the references to 
Buddhism are also included in the MoQ textbook.  


Marsha 





On Mar 2, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Ant McWatt wrote:

> 
> Marsah V wrote to Dave Buchanan February 20th 2013:
> 
> 
> Along with some similarities between the MoQ and W. James' Pragmatism, RMP 
> has pointed to similarities between the MoQ and Buddhism, and RMP is 
> considered a Process philosopher, along with Charles Peirce and Alfred North 
> Whitehead.  Look up the word 'process'.  
> 
> Ant McWatt comments:
> 
> Well, these kind of comparisons of the MOQ with process philosophy, Buddhism, 
> pragmatism etc is all very useful for talking to academic philosophologists 
> but, on reflection, I wouldn't push these comparisons too far.  The MOQ is 
> it's own thing.  These type of comparisons put limits to it which, to borrow 
> a phrase of Wittgenstein's, are ladders that should be thrown away once the 
> MOQ is understood (or at least just used/perceived as the "rough" 
> maps/pointers that they are).  I'm quite aware of what Pirsig wrote in LILA 
> about the MOQ and pragmatism and the statement near the beginning of my PhD 
> of the MOQ being some sort of Western form of Buddhism.  
> 
> This is coming back to a recent Discuss post where Ham Priday complains that 
> Dynamic Quality is left undefined.  Now, one of the reasons that it's 
> important to do this is so  DQ/the "indeterminate aesthetic 
> continuum"/God?/the "Tao" is kept out of the cultural context of any given 
> era. People always want to label things, put a handle them, understand them 
> in terms of their own everyday life.  Firstly, such definitions - by their 
> own nature - warp and leave out certain aspects of DQ.  Secondly, as Pirsig 
> notes in LILA, the reason that traditional religion has become less relevant 
> and useful, is that its relatively static social traditions and institutions 
> are strangling the Dynamic Quality which initially guided and established 
> them. The dogma and ceremonies are analogous to the dirt and pollution which 
> hide and slowly destroy statues on the outside of a cathedral.
> 
> 
> On February 20th 2013, David Buchanan wrote:
> 
>> Here is Marsha's (incorrect and incoherent) definition/explanation of static 
>> patterns of value:
>> 
>> 
>> Static patterns of value are repetitive processes, conditionally 
>> co-dependent, impermanent and ever-changing... 
> 
> Ant McWatt comments:
> 
> No, not in LILA they're don't.  In the MOQ of LILA, static patterns don't 
> change.
> 
> This "world of Buddhas" (AND THE PHRASE ENDS with an "s" Marsha and Dan!!!) 
> viewpoint was largely introduced in the PhD largely for the benefit of the 
> philosophologists.  For practical purposes, for maintaining your motorcycle, 
> for improving your writing or whatever, I don't think it's of much use.  It 
> certainly has confused things round here. This is why I said at the beginning 
> of the thread, that its use should be qualified.  If you look at how Pirsig's 
> uses this viewpoint (certainly with my correspondence) it's relatively rare 
> use is always qualified.  Things are kept clear by Pirsig (which, is so 
> important with understanding a whole new metaphysics).
> 
> Getting back to the correspondence, Pirsig suggested (I think it was in May 
> 1997 - either way, this is in the Letters PDF) that the term "patterned" and 
> "unpatterned" would work nearly just as well as the "static-Dynamic" split of 
> the MOQ that Pirsig finally decided to use.  As we can see by reading 
> Pirsig's original letter he makes reference to Dainin Kategiri Roshi (the Zen 
> master at Minneapolis Zen Center during the 1970s) and the latter's saying 
> that "in nothingness [i.e. DQ], there is a great working".  In other words, 
> "Unpatterned" implies nothing is going on while, in fact, the whole universe 
> is being generated and regenerated every moment!
> 
> To be put it in other words, no term is going to be perfect. The word 
> "static" has these Newtonian connotations; the word "unpatterned" implies 
> nothing is going on.  (It's analogous to the labelling of light as 
> wave-particles; it's not a perfect description but it such a description 
> lends a clue to the dual nature of light's behaviour).
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Ant
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
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