Hello everyone On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 1:37 AM, David Harding <[email protected]>wrote:
> Hi Dan, > > >>>> I've removed parts of this thread in which you were being "downright > rude at times, even vulgar".. or where we weren't discussing the > intellectual aspects of the MOQ. For my part in this devolution I > apologise.. If you don't mind I'd like to keep our conversation civilised > and hopefully away from social bickering or biological rudeness.. > >>> > >>> Dan: > >>> Whatever you think I am, or wish me to be, I am. > >> > >> But that's where you're wrong. How easy life would be if it would > require a simple change in mind to change our reality. If only it would > bend to our whims.. Such an easy life. > > > > Dan: > > That is not what I said though, now is it. I've just re-read what I > > wrote and there is nothing simple about it. In fact, due to > > constraints placed upon us by culture there are very few who are able > > to break free. They insist that the world exists independently, that > > no matter what they think, it is forever separate from them. > > > > But it isn't. > > Right - so our ideas are based in our culture and a simple change of mind > will clearly not change our reality? > Hi David The discussion is becoming too unwieldy for me to continue, plus you seem to be making a lot of erroneous assumptions about who I am and what I am saying. Although I have repeated myself many times, you do not seem to be grasping my words. The above reply is an example. You continue to insist on 'simple' when nothing is simple. Later, you introduce the notion of experience as a third category in the MOQ when I have repeatedly offered you the quote from Lila's Child about experience and Dynamic Quality becoming synonymous. How on earth can experience be a third category when it becomes synonymous with experience? You insist that according to the MOQ we experience static quality. You've lifted quotes from Lila to bolster that opinion and yet you fail to see where such a notion leads: right back to subjects observing objects as primary values. This latest refusal to understand what I am saying leads me to believe I am wasting my time here. I've spent many hours working on my replies to you and yet you do not seem to read them and/or comprehend what I am saying. You feel that if we could wish the world into being what we want it to be, the world would be a far different place. What you fail to realize is that we are doing just that every moment of our lives. What we wish, however, has been beaten into us from the very beginning. The static quality patterns of our lives are constrained into being what we know them to be. It is all but impossible to break free of that knowing, especially if one is blind. The first step is to wake up, to open one's eyes and see that the world is not separate and apart from us. We create the world and then tell ourselves it is separate and apart from us and we have no influence upon it. We know for a fact the world exists independently of us and has done so way before we were born and will continue to do so long after we pass away. Even when someone comes along to tell us this isn't so, we fight it. Consider of all the books that have been written on this very subject: Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie, The Book of Wisdom by the Dalai Lama, Anthony Robbins' Personal Classic, and on and on and on. You are saying all these thinkers are wrong. Robert Pirsig is wrong. And yet any one of these books, if read and put into practice, would totally transform one's life. But more, one would come to realize that no book is necessary. One would see that we create our own reality: whatever we think it is, or wish it to be, it becomes. There is no separation between the world and us. This is exactly what Robert Pirsig is on about in both his books and all his subsequent writings. If you take that one little sentence about the world existing within the human imagination AND UNDERSTAND IT, it would be one of those rare 'ah ha!' moments that come along once or twice in a lifetime. Yet: what are you doing? Fighting it. Telling me that that cannot possibly be so. Going on and on about how something so 'simple' is completely wrong: that you know this for a fact, and anything I say is going to fall upon deaf ears. It is your loss that you refuse to even consider such a possibility, not mine. Anyway, the rest of the discussion pales in comparison to this disagreement and so I am deleting it from this post. If you have some burning questions, feel free to address them. Thank you, Dan http://www.danglover.com Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
