Marsha
14 apr 2013 kl. 11.18 skrev MarshaV:
>
> Greetings J-A,
>
> Many is not all. There's a difference between an universal qualifier and an
> existential qualifier. I do appreciate the usefulness of concepts, but I
> hold all static patterns of value to be hypothetical, especially those I
> present. I find it more useful to consider objects of knowledge (stuff in
> the encyclopedia) as 'static patterns of value' ("patterns") rather than
> 'truths'.
"More" useful.... This is the old SOM vs MOQ stuff. You pick the right side.
But nothing new.
"As to which is more important, Dynamic or static, both are absolutely
essential, even when they are in conflict. As stated in LILA, without Dynamic
Quality an organism cannot grow. But without static quality an organism cannot
last. Dynamic liberals and radicals need conservatives to keep them from making
a mess of the world through unneeded change. Conservatives also need liberals
and radicals to keep them from making a mess of the world through unneeded
stagnation. This also holds true for philosophy. My feeling is that
subject-object way of interpreting the world is stagnant and inadequate for our
time, but without that base of subject-object understanding to build from, the
Metaphysics of Quality, by itself, has no value either." RMP 2005
> The term 'patterns' is a good representation. And I prefer to think of
> _static patterns of value_ as hypothetical (supposed but not necessarily real
> or true.) Once one accepts the MoQ's fundamental principal that the world
> is nothing but Value, then 'expanded rationality' occurs when an individual
> transforms the natural tendency to reify self and world into the natural
> tendency to hold all static patterns of value to be hypothetical (supposed
> but not necessarily real or true.) By using 'hypothetical' I think there is
> less of a tendency toward intellectual arrogance. Understanding static
> (patterned) value as hypothetical acknowledges the incompleteness of what we
> know and makes room for additional inquiry with new possibilities; it
> promotes an attitude of fearless curiosity - gumption. It moves one away
> from thinking of entities as existing inherently and independent of
> consciousness.
>
> Before (when soft and malleable) and after a firing (when firm), the clay is
> still in a constant state of changing.
Sure, but the important thing about the usefulness, the value, during the pot's
time, is that it is hard enough to keep the content from leaking out of it. You
sound like that stablity is constantly inferior to change. I say that they are
even and that all we know about this ever-change is patterned.
> Put down your accordion a few minutes a day to take an introspective look:
I write down melodies to remember them. Frank Zappa had his picture of the Big
Note, still he wrote and played a lot of small-note music of great value.
>
>
> "The purpose of mystic meditation is not to remove oneself from experience
> but to bring one's self closer to it by eliminating stale, confusing, static,
> intellectual attachments of the past."
> (LILA, Chapter 9)
>
>
> “Introspective observation is what we have to rely on first and foremost and
> always. I regard the belief [in introspection] as the most fundamental of all
> the postulates of Psychology”
> (W. James, 1890)
>
>
> Marsha
Jan-Anders
>
> ___
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 14, 2013, at 4:52 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> But the point, Marsha, with using a concept, a static pattern about
>> stability is to point at something that does NOT change.
>>
>> You seem to call for something stable and unchanged about your own view when
>> you say; "I have pointed out many times", don't you? Or are you able to
>> change your own opinion, too?
>>
>> Or why should you burn the clay?
>>
>> J A
>>
>>
>> 14 apr 2013 kl. 08.43 skrev MarshaV:
>>
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>>
>>> Dynamic Quality is indivisible, undefinable and unknowable - unpatterned.
>>> There is nothing differentiable within Dynamic Quality to be changing; it
>>> is static patterns that change.
>>>
>>> "It’s fairly obvious from reading Pirsig’s texts that SOM is perceived by
>>> him as an example of ignorant thinking. Briefly, this is due to such
>>> systems ignoring the reality of Dynamic Quality. Why this is particularly
>>> ignorant is explained by the ‘Three Aspects’ of the Cittamatra school of
>>> Mahayana Buddhism. Williams (1988, p.83) states that the First Aspect
>>> refers to the falsifying activity of language which implies independent and
>>> permanent existence to things. As Hagen -202- (1997, p.30) notes, one of
>>> the most fundamental truths noted by the Buddha is that all aspects of our
>>> experience are in constant flux and change. According to the Buddha, when a
>>> person ignores this truth they subject themselves to dukkha."
>>>
>>> -202- Pirsig (1998b) notes that Hagen‘s text Buddhism: Plain & Simple
>>> ‘…shows the similarities, between the MOQ and Zen Buddhism more clearly
>>> than any other I have seen.’ "
>>>
>>> (McWatts, MoQ Textbook)
>>>
>>> Marsha:
>>> I have pointed out many times, it is not anti-intellectual or a
>>> contradiction to understand that patterns may maintain a static, stable
>>> identity at the same time as they and their context are undergoing constant
>>> change. Think of the Ship of Theseus, or a parade (Hume) where everyone
>>> drops out but is replaced so that the parade is maintained, or the body
>>> with its cells constantly being replaced. Things can change - flow - and
>>> yet have permanence; think of a river.
>>>
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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