Arlo, OK, as Marsha says, the problem we're having is that debating the intellectual level has become taboo, and turned into an excuse to trade personal insults. Let's try and build from the following example:
ARLO said to Ian: Like Marsha, you seem to think that incoherence is a necessary 'step' to free oneself from the choking dogma of intellectual patterns. "Seem" - is progress. Better than actually accusing me (personally) of incoherence. Even better might be to ask me if / what I do actually think. I'll continue as if you did. PREAMBLE (Obviously) I know that's what you think (Arlo and the other "intellectual" bulldogs) - that's why this is an ongoing difficulty. We need to address it. I have addressed little else for ten years (obviously). (Also let me put one item aside briefly - I said this (MD) is a conversation, not a logical argument - that is, it contains level upon level of rhetoric of every kind, by every participant, across every time-scale. I'm simply stating a fact.) So back to the point. Do I believe in-coherence is a "necessary" part of / step towards .... quality understanding and knowledge ? (Aside - I do believe it's necessary to experience different levels of incoherence in order to understand coherence - so an educational "step" maybe - but not an aim or objective to "be" incoherent. Though this is never a point I'm trying to make - more / wider experience is good. full stop. Incoherence is simply part of life's rich tapestry. Non contentious. No point to make here.) THIS IS THE POINT I do believe it's necessary to honestly recognise that judgements of how coherent something is does depend on our intellectual model of coherence. So, to rephrase your "seem" sentence: Ian says - "In order to free oneself from the choking dogma of intellectual patterns .... one does have to recognise that the dogma of what counts as coherent - valid argumentation - is itself such an intellectual pattern." [Address just that statement without second-guessing what Ian seems to believe - or the quality of Ian's character - and maybe we can move on to questions of SOMist and MoQish intellect ....] Ian Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
