Don't be a fool DM. Obviously you're using an understanding of the word "experience" that is different from what RMP is suggesting in Lila.
Jan-Anders > 3 okt 2013 kl. 03:14 skrev David Morey <[email protected]>: > > DMB > > Concepts can agree to the pre-conceptual patterns/qualities we find in > experience, how can concepts agree to pure flux in experience, although > maybe point or indicate iS the starting place of concepts rather than > agreement. The concept horizon draws a line to mark out the sky from the > ground, clarifying and naming and identifying a pre-conceptual pattern in > our experience of reality. If the concept blue does not pick out a > pre-conceptual regularity/pattern of blueness, why is everything not blue > and why is there red? And next let us discuss how to suck eggs if you need to > dude. You do make me laugh! > > DM > > david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> >> David Morey said to dmb: >> ...You say the concept agrees with experience, well yes, but it cannot agree >> to a flux, so what do we say? We can say it agrees with the dynamic patterns >> of our experience, placing patterns in DQ rather than in SQ. >> >> >> >> dmb says: >> You want to rearrange the MOQ into the shape of SOM because "the concept >> agrees with experience," you say, "but it cannot agree to a flux". I think >> this is what it all boils down to. >> >> Firstly, we are talking about DQ as an experiential flux, so saying "the >> concept agrees with experience" is exactly the same as saying "the concept >> agrees with the flux". You can't rightly accept one and deny the other. >> >> That's the idea, though. Reality (DQ) is an experiential flux, a stream of >> experience, a flow of perceptions, an undifferentiated aesthetic continuum, >> the endless landscape of awareness, pure experience, immediate experience, >> preconceptual experience, unpatterned Quality, the pre-intellectual cutting >> edge of experience. All these terms mean the same thing and THAT is whats is >> being conceptualized. This is the source and substance of all static >> patterns. Every last bit of it. >> >> This is what all those quotes said, David. Your question was answered by the >> evidence before you even asked it. As I've tried to explain, your >> objections to this "flux" don't seem at all legitimate because you're >> demanding, basically, that we convert DQ into the pre-existing objective >> reality of SOM. It's okay to raise objections, ask questions or otherwise >> probe the meaning of this experiential flux - but converting it into its >> enemy is an outrageously bad idea. That is nothing less that a rejection of >> the MOQ, and for no good reason! >> >> >> "Dynamic Quality is the term given by Pirsig to the CONTINUALLY CHANGING >> FLUX of immediate reality while static quality refers to any concept >> abstracted from this flux." (McWatt) >> >> Again, "....static quality refers to any concept abstracted from this flux." >> (McWatt) >> >> >> Paul Williams, a Buddhist scholar quoted by McWatt, says the same thing. >> >> "...imagine all things, objects of experience and oneself, the one who is >> experiencing, as just a flow of perceptions. We do not know that there is >> something 'out there'." >> >> AND >> >> "...there is only an EVER-CHANGING FLOW of perceptions ...we construct these >> perceptions into enduring subjects and objects confronting each other." >> >> >> Pirsig, in chapter 29 of Lila, says the same thing that Williams just said. >> >> "Subjects and objects are ..concepts derived from something [James] >> described as 'THE IMMEDIATE FLUX OF LIFE " >> AND >> "In this basic FLUX OF EXPERIENCE, the distinctions of reflective thought,.. >> have not yet emerged in the forms which we make them." (Pirsig in Lila) >> >> AND >> >> "There must always be a discrepancy between concepts and reality, because >> the former are static and discontinuous while the latter is DYNAMIC AND >> FLOWING." (Pirsig in Lila) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
