Marsha,
If you do not recognize our
Interpretation then perhaps 
You are not listening mindfully.

I simply asked who/whom is at
The core of the interpretation of
What is "right"?.

But you never addressed that question, all we got was a quote
That we were to presumably take
As a justification for not answering
It as something to consider.

All the other stuff was your typical
Deception/evasion tactics that you
Obviously lost track of ..mistake ?
More like confusion concerning your
Own web of deceptive speech.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2013, at 4:50 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Ron and Andre,
> 
> As I do not recognized neither of your interpretations of the original 
> context, let's backtrack and empty a bit of the tea to start afresh (or not):
> 
> 
> *************
> 
> On Nov 14, 2013, at 1:35 AM, MarshaV posted:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> More on right speech: 
> 
> 
> --- The Basics of Right Speech
> 
> As recorded in the Pali Canon, the historical Buddha taught that Right Speech 
> had four parts:
> 
>    • Abstain from false speech; do not tell lies or deceive.
>    • Do not slander others or speak in a way that causes disharmony or enmity.
>    • Abstain from rude, impolite or abusive language.
>    • Do not indulge in idle talk or gossip.
> 
> Practice of these four aspects of Right Speech goes beyond simple "thou shalt 
> nots." It means speaking truthfully and honestly; speaking in a way to 
> promote harmony and good will; using language to reduce anger and ease 
> tensions; using language in a way that is useful.
> 
> If your speech is not useful and beneficial, teachers say, it is better to 
> keep silent.
> 
> 
> --- Right Listening
> 
> In his book The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching, Vietnamese Zen teacher Thich 
> Nhat Hanh said, "Deep listening is the foundation of Right Speech. If we 
> cannot listen mindfully, we cannot practice Right Speech. No matter what we 
> say, it will not be mindful, because we'll be speaking only our own ideas and 
> not in response to the other person."
> 
> This reminds us that our speech is not just our speech. Communication is 
> something that happens between people. We might think of speech as something 
> we give to others, and if we think of it that way, what is the quality of 
> that gift?
> 
> Mindfulness includes mindfulness of what's going on inside ourselves. If we 
> aren't paying attention to our own emotions and taking care of ourselves, 
> tension and suffering build up. And then we explode.
> 
> 
> 
> http://buddhism.about.com/od/theeightfoldpath/a/rightspeech.htm
> 
> 
> *************
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> 
> 
> On Nov 17, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Ron Kulp <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:34 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Andre,
>> 
>> I didn't state that anatta was the same as 'small self'.  I'll leave you 
>> with your personal evaluations. There is nothing here I wish to discuss.
> Notice the questions to Andre began with "who" and "whom"?  The questions are 
> pertaining to anatta, or small self? 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 15, 2013, at 5:06 PM, Andre <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Marsha to Ron:
>>> Notice the questions to Andre began with "who" and "whom"? The questions 
>>> are pertaining to anatta, or small self?
>>> 
>>> Andre:
>>> Who the heck do you think you are, on this discuss other than anatta? And, 
>>> by the way, you have it wrong. Anatta refers to 'no-self' which is 
>>> different to small self. To whom is Ron directing his question other than 
>>> anatta which you term 'small self'??? This is the world we live in and what 
>>> we are!! Sq...we ARE these patterns. And, oh...Big Self (no-self) has 
>>> nothing to say. It is silent...I experience this several times a day. But 
>>> that is not the one writing these lines.
>>> 
>>> Marsha:
>>> The questions in no way were meant to indicate that "the "right way" means 
>>> whatever one wants it to mean."
>>> 
>>> Andre:
>>> Marsha, there is something fundamentally wrong with the way you go about 
>>> this discuss. I'll refer to your 'apology' earlier today:
>>> 
>>> 'There is so much not available in an email communication.  I only see 
>>> words on a screen without any emotional cues.  I tend not to want to make 
>>> things personal for that reason.  I don't really know you at all.  If I 
>>> misread you tone, I apologize.  I too easily fall into the pattern of using 
>>> past experiences.'
>>> 
>>> Andre continues:
>>> 
>>> Do you not register that a human being types these words? Do you ONLY see 
>>> words and nothing else?
>>> 
>>> This really confirms my (and some others') idea that you are so suspicious 
>>> of the intellectual level (in your mind= SOM)that you do not see or feel or 
>>> hear any living patterns behind the written language. Anti-intellectualism 
>>> to a sickly extreme.
>>> 
>>> Do you think that you, on this forum discussing Pirsig's MoQ, are addressed 
>>> as anything other than your 'small self? (Yes, the world and all it's 
>>> inhabitants are an illusion...it's analogies all the way down and up and 
>>> left and right and centered and below and wherever you want them to be) AND 
>>> SO ARE YOU.
>>> So why not behave as part of that illusion if you want to seriously engage 
>>> in discussions on this Discuss.
>>> Avoiding discussions and appealing to 'anatta' (i.e. not-self) won't win 
>>> you any flavours or favours. It is a sickly way to escape...because that is 
>>> what it is. An ESCAPE and NOT a constructive way to creatively move a 
>>> discussion along or throw a completely different light on an old topic or 
>>> simply answer a question. NO! You use it as a way to wriggle through, to 
>>> slither your way out of any and every situation.
>>> 
>>> You asked me the other day on your comment that 'If your speech is not 
>>> useful and beneficial,...it is better to keep silent.':
>>> 
>>> I gave you my view and you answered:Record of what, and interpreted by 
>>> whom?  Who is at the core of such opinion?
>>> 
>>> It is very obvious that the 'record' you are referring to is your own (just 
>>> check the archives). Interpreted by many readers and participants of this 
>>> discuss. Who or what is at the core of such an opinion?
>>> 
>>> I'll tell you Marsha: the one who wrote this is the one who reads this. And 
>>> if that is not clear enough: the one who reads this is the one who wrote 
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> Stop hiding and own up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
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