Hi Dan, We agree enough is enough. If I may focus on your final para:
> The real question seems to be: is this discussion group a culture of its > own? And if so, are we presuming these beliefs correspond to some sort of > external (objective) reality? So far as I know, the MOQ subsumes objective > and subjective reality into a framework of value. Are these values to be > found in Lila and ZMM? I think there is a lot on this. The culture of this group "should" comprise the values we find in Lila and ZMM sure. Playful (whether worldly / knowing or naive / neurotic) social interaction is simply part of being a group - the bit we agree needs to be within limits of tolerance, caring for each other as individuals, to use John's language. But the core culture is of course schizophernic / split-personality between ZMM and Lila. (And Paul gave us a "two views" perspective on this.) Those on the philosophical academe agenda, the Lila half, clearly seem intent on subsuming whatever qualities MoQ has (had) into some objective subject-object dialectic. (Mark / 118 said as much recently). For me these are welcome to their own agenda, I respect their rights to do so - in an academic context. What I can't accept is this agenda subsuming the whole art & rhetroic of zen and the art of MD, which only flourishes without the overly objective shackles. Half dead is not alive. Ian Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html