oh hell yes, Ron. had hemorrhoids flare up bad for two days ago and it was like I was another person A crying wanker unable to function and moody as hell. The flesh is a bitch at times, indeed.
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Ron Kulp <xa...@rocketmail.com> wrote: > Thanks John, > Broken ribs make life > Difficult, coupled with > The herniated disc it > Really effects me and > My ability to think. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 14, 2014, at 2:05 PM, John Carl <ridgecoy...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Ron, > > > > sorry to hear you're sore > > > > > >> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Ron Kulp <xa...@rocketmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> Dave, > >> Exactly what I was aiming for, I am > >> Sincerely glad that you returned to > >> The MD. Yourself and Arlo, Andre > >> Too, have communicated the ideas > >> I also hold but unfortunately I am > >> Unable to express them with the level > >> Of proficiency that you gentlemen have displayed at the moment. > >> Having sustained a few painful > >> Injuries it has really limited my ability > >> To contribute the way I would like. > >> > >> Thank you > >> > >> Ron > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>> On Jan 14, 2014, at 11:08 AM, david <dmbucha...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Just some relevant quotes on the topic.... Obedient mules or free and > >> creative persons. > >>> > >>> > >>> Now, at last, the standard rhetoric texts came into their own. The > >> principles expounded in them were no longer rules to rebel against, not > >> Ultimates in themselves, but just techniques, gimmicks, for producing > what > >> really counted and stood independently of the techniques... Quality. > >>> > >>> ...The whole Quality concept was beautiful. It worked. It was that > >> mysterious, individual, internal goal of each creative person, on the > >> blackboard at last." > >>> > >>> In other words, rules are tools, they're not supposed to constrain you. > >> And they don't really make any sense until you have something to say > first. > >> When you have a purpose, when you have your own internal goal then the > >> rules become a helpful guide, a helpful aid, then they make sense. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> At first the classes were excited by this exercise, but as time went on > >> they became bored. What he meant by Quality was obvious. They obviously > >> knew what it was too, and so they lost interest in listening. Their > >> question now was 'All right, we know what Quality is. How do we get > >> it?'Now, at last, the standard rhetoric texts came into their own. The > >> principles expounded in them were no longer rules to rebel against, not > >> Ultimates in themselves, but just techniques, gimmicks, for producing > what > >> really counted and stood independently of the techniques... Quality. > What > >> had started out as a heresy from traditional rhetoric turned into a > >> beautiful introduction to it.He singled out aspects of Quality such as > >> unity, vividness, authority, economy, sensitivity, clarity, emphasis, > flow, > >> suspense, [brilliance, precision, proportion, depth and so on]; kept > each > >> of these as poorly defined as Quality itself, but demonstrated them by > the > >> same class reading techniques. He showed how the asp > >> ec > >>> t of Quality called unity, the hanging-togetherness of a story, could > be > >> improved with a technique called an outline. The authority of an > argument > >> could be jacked up with a technique called footnotes, which gives > >> authoritative reference. Outlines and footnotes are standard things > taught > >> in all freshman composition classes, but now as devices for improving > >> Quality they had a purpose.Now that was over with. By reversing a basic > >> rule that all things which are to be taught must first be defined, he > had > >> found a way out of all this. He was pointing to no principle, no rule of > >> good writing, no theory but he was pointing to something, nevertheless, > >> that was very real, whose reality they couldn't deny. The vacuum that > had > >> been created by the withholding of grades (another experiment he > created) > >> was suddenly filled with the positive goal of Quality, and the whole > thing > >> fit together. Students, astonished, came by his office and said, "I > used to > >> just hate English. Now I spend more time > >> > >>> on it than anything else." Not just one or two. Many. The whole Quality > >> concept was beautiful. It worked. It was that mysterious, individual, > >> internal goal of each creative person, on the blackboard at last."In > other > >> words, rules are tools, they're not supposed to constrain you. And they > >> don't really make any sense until you have something to say first. When > you > >> have a purpose, when you have your own internal goal then the rules > become > >> a helpful guide, a helpful aid, then they make sense. The students > >> discovered this on their own. Well, not completely on their own. But he > >> began to wonder why it worked. And he soon realised that this was no > small > >> gimmick. > >>> > >>> > >>> The students biggest problem was a slave mentality which had been built > >> into him by years of carrot-and -whip grading, a mule mentality which > said, > >> "If you don't whip me, I won't work." He didn't get whipped. He didn't > >> work. And the cart of civilization, which he supposedly was being > trained > >> to pull, was just going to have to creak along a little slower without > him. > >>> > >>> This is a tragedy, however, only if you presume that the cart of > >> civilization, "the system", is pulled by mules. ...The purpose of > >> abolishing grades and degrees is not to punish mules or to get rid of > them > >> but to provide an environment in which that mule can turn into a free > man. > >>> > >>> The hypothetical student, still a mule, would drift around for a while. > >> He would get another kind of education quite as valuable as the one hed > >> abandoned, in what used to be called the "school of hard knocks." > Instead > >> of wasting money and time as a high-status mule, he would now have to > get a > >> job as a low-status mule, maybe as a mechanic. Actually his real status > >> would go up. He would be making a contribution for a change. Maybe thats > >> what he would do for the rest of his life. Maybe hed found his level. > But > >> dont count on it. > >>> > >>> In time six months; five years, perhaps a change could easily begin to > >> take place. He would become less and less satisfied with a kind of dumb, > >> day-to-day shopwork. His creative intelligence, stifled by too much > theory > >> and too many grades in college, would now become re-awakened by the > boredom > >> of the shop. Thousands of hours of frustrating mechanical problems would > >> have made him more interested in machine design. He would like to design > >> machinery himself. He'd think he could do a better job. He would try > >> modifying a few engines, meet with success, look for more success, but > feel > >> blocked because he didn't have the theoretical information, he'd now > find a > >> brand of theoretical information which he'd have a lot of respect for, > >> namely, mechanical engineering. > >>> > >>> So he would come back to our degreeless and gradeless school, but with > a > >> difference. Hed no longer be a grade-motivated person. He'd be a > >> knowledge-motivated person. He would need no external pushing to learn. > His > >> push would come from inside. He'd be a free man. He wouldn't need a lot > of > >> discipline to shape him up. In fact, if the instructors were slacking on > >> the job he would be likely to shape them up by asking rude questions. > He'd > >> be there to learn something, would be paying to learn something and > they'd > >> better come up with it. > >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >>> Archives: > >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html