Amen (in the name of Reason)
Jan-Anders > 5 mar 2014 kl. 00:31 skrev david <[email protected]>: > > > > John McConnell said to Ant McWatt, March 4th 2014 (off-line): > > "There’s no point igniting a God-bomb in that bunch of theophobes on MD. > Here at least you and I understand each other. You know I’m not out to > evangelize you, and you are at least tolerant of my faith." > > > dmb says: > Bunch of theophobes on MD? Ouch. I guess John would be talking about people > like me. The label seems in accurate (theophobe) because it's not a personal > aversion or fear but I do think the MOQ is not theism and even anti-theistic > in some respects. In some sense, the MOQ is a religion but without the > supernaturalism and without anything being taken on faith. It's an expression > of the perennial philosophy, a form of philosophical mysticism and is > compatible with a non-theistic religions like Buddhism. But theism? The > churches are real life-savers for some people. Not only feeding people or > saving people from the ravages of vice but also providing a certain moral > standard and an overall civilizing effect. For those dominated by biological > values, joining the church or adopting a traditional faith is certainly an > improvement. But intellectually speaking, faith is garbage. Really low > quality stuff. That's what Pirsig says and I think so too. > > > > > Ant McWatt replied to John: > > ...Finally, to address your substantive point, do keep in mind that any > values statement based on the MOQ will also be guided by Dynamic Quality as > well as intellectual values (which, as I said in my earlier MD post) are > considered as "real" as any other static pattern. The latter point is > important to keep in mind because then these intellectual values are not just > seen as purely subjective (as found in SOM) and therefore relatively > unimportant (or something just for a "PR" exercise) but something to > genuinely guide every person at every level in an organization (whether that > be a church, corporation, residents association, university or charity) at > every level AND at every moment! > > Apologies if my last MD post about this subject didn't make that clear! (I > must admit I don't think it did unfortunately). > > > > dmb says: > > Exactly. Thank you. > The MOQ says that intellectual values are as real as rocks and trees. And > these values are placed at the top of the moral hierarchy precisely because > they are more dynamic, more open to change, than are the other categories of > static values. This is even more true when SOM (the genetic defect in > intellect) is rejected in favor of the MOQ's root expansion rationality. > > In ZAMM Pirsig wrote: > "I think that it will be found that a formal acknowledgment of the role of > Quality in the scientific process doesn't destroy the empirical vision at > all. It expands it, strengthens it and brings it far closer to actual > scientific practice." > > Quite consistently despite the introduction of DQ, sq, and the four levels in > Lila, Pirsig wrote: > "The Metaphysics of Quality says that science's empirical rejection of > biological and social values is not only rationally correct, it is also > morally correct because the intellectual patterns of science are of a higher > evolutionary order than the old biological and social patterns. But the > Metaphysics of Quality also says that Dynamic Quality - the value-force that > chooses an elegant mathematical solution to a laborious one, or a brilliant > experiment over a confusing, inconclusive one - is another matter altogether. > Dynamic Quality is a higher moral order than static scientific truth, and it > is as immoral for philosophers of science to try to suppress Dynamic Quality > as it is for church authorities to suppress scientific method. Dynamic value > is an integral part of science. It is the cutting edge of scientific progress > itself." > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
