John said to Arlo:
I was trying to rectify the low regard that attaches to social patterns when
they are equated with Religion, by a bunch of atheists.
Arlo replied:
"Religion" is at the locus of a lot of this because "religion" has been a (the)
main social pattern that has (is) attempted to dominate intellectual patterns.
I doubt many people find, say, "the union of basketweavers" to ever have been a
threat to intellectual patterns. I imagine if most people practiced their
religion without the need to coerce social law to ignore intellectual patterns
in deference to 'their' god, their would be little conflict.
dmb says:
Right, the problem with religion is that it attempts to assert itself over a
higher form of quality. In fact, that seems to be John's purpose in torturing
Pirsig's ideas about the conflict between levels. He wants to alter the MOQ's
moral hierarchy in order to elevate his religion and, I suppose, he even wants
to misconstrue the MOQ itself as a form of theism. If intellectual patterns
become social as soon as they're released into society (from the subjective
mind of an individual), then philosophy and science is reduced to the same
level and intellectual quality can no longer trump social quality. See how he
does that? It doesn't matter whether it makes any sense or whether it
contradicts Pirsig's explanations so long nothing and nobody is the boss of
John's religion.
At one point Pirsig says that the MOQ is not only non-theistic but in some
respects even anti-theistic. And the kind of thing that John is doing here (in
trying to rearrange the levels and/or deny that there is any conflict between
them) is exactly what Pirsig was talking about. That's exactly the sense in
which the MOQ is opposed to theism, when theism is anti-intellectual.
It's despicable. (Say that with a Daffy Duck accent, please.)
John axed:
Whose reason? Whose intellect? Why those of the proper social origins of
course.
Arlo replied:
Not at all. Reason and intellect are not proprietary to a "who", they are the
products of the ongoing body of reason itself. It does not matter if a series
of studies demonstrating the impact of raising/lowering/maintaining a speed
limit are produced by Harvard or your local community college. What matters is
that adhere to the demands of intellectual quality.
dmb says:
Right, Universities and colleges are public institutions and are social in that
sense but the standards for truth and evidence and intellectual integrity are
the pillars that hold up the church of reason. A good college is moral in both
ways and will fight for the intellectual standards whenever they are threatened
by social demands.
It's called NOT selling out to the marketplace.
Plastics!
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