John on Fri, Aug 22:
I have noticed a lot of conflict and confusion over the years of this discuss,
on what is meant by social. Pirsig himself admitted as much in the Baggini
interview when he said when it comes right down to it, it's hard to think of
anything that isn't social in some way or another. And this is true because
everything that is, is in relation. ...
John on Sun, Aug 24:
Bo came to my rescue - One just have [sic] to go to Pirsig's letter to Paul
Turner (2003). "There has been a tendency to extend the meaning of 'social'
down into the biological with the assertion that, for example, ants are social,
but I have argued that this extends the meaning to a point where it is useless
for classification. I said that even atoms can be called societies of electrons
and protons. And since everything is thus social, why even have the word?"
dmb says:
I think it's pretty clear that the quote not only comes from a different place
than you said, John, it also means approximately the opposite of what you said
it did. Pirsig even uses an example that perfectly matches your particular
mistake. (When you claimed that ants and bees "have social structures
hard-wired into their DNA". In response, Dan quite rightly objected, saying
"these are biological instincts, not social patterns". You made the same
mistake when you said, "imitative sociability is that which we find amongst the
wolves and the dolphins and all mammals". This is exactly the sort of thing
Pirsig objected to because when you do that it "extends the meaning" of the
word social "to a point where it is useless for classification". If you do
that, Pirsig says, "why even have the word"?
As I see it, you have been caught red-handed saying something quite false and
wrong. Even worse, when people complain about your errors, you put on this
weird persecuted genius act and insult the complainers for being too dogmatic
or narrow-minded. This level of ignorance and arrogance (at the same time) is
very disturbing. It's delusional. And this is exactly the kind of nonsense I
want to nap through. It's not just wrong, it's a boring and pointless waste of
time. When you do this, we're not even talking about Pirsig's work anymore but
rather just some nonsense you made up for god-knows-what reason.
Will you please just go away and get a different hobby. Stay away from
philosophy, especially Pirsig's. Go heal yourself and then teach Sunday school
or something. Seriously. Reading and thinking is just NOT your cup of tea.
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