Hi Guys
This idea of Kevin's about a 5th level of mystic value has gotten me
thinking, so I thought I'd share my pain :)
A level of static patterns of mystic(al) value? This seems to me like a
contradiction. I was under the impression that the idea of the mystic
experience was to dump static patterns and head off in the direction
of DQ.
There are a couple of things that bother me about adding a mystical
level above Intellect:
1) How did (does) the level emerge? From what Kevin is saying this
level is between Intellect and DQ so it must have emerged from
Intellect and be built upon it.
2) What values embody the level? Biological values refer to health,
pleasure, reproductive ability etc. Social values refer to popularity,
celebrity, fame etc. Intellectual values refer to logic, knowledge etc.
All of these are static values. So what do Mystic Values refer to?
It was really a comment from Rich that made me sit up and take
notice:
On 8 Apr 99, at 10:41, rich pretti wrote:
> i.e. - why is it that primitive, isolated tribes have no mathematics,
> science, individual rights and freedoms, etc...? (before contact with
> modernity) - Because the society does not value them.
But many of these primitive societies still relate to mystical
experience. So a level seems to have been missed out if what Kevin
is saying is correct. But this would seem to contradict my comments
in point (1) above and further, it cotradicts the MOQ hierarchy as
described by Pirsig.
OK. Maybe I missed something along the way but when Pirsig
described the history of the 20th century as a battle between Society
and Intellect, I don't think he was referring to the 'intellect' of an atom
or a cell or whatever, but a specific type of value - Intellectual value of
the sort Rich describes above. 'Primitive' tribes do not appear to
possess these values but they do possess mystics in abundance,
often in the form of shamens - in fact it seems, in some ways, to be
the coming of Intellect that denies the existence of Mystical
experience. But if Intellect comes first and a static mystic level is
built upon or emergent from intellect there is a definite contradiction.
Any thoughts anyone?
Horse
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